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HelicopterThunder TigerOther › Raptor 30 varying pitch readings??
08-08-2007 08:48 PM  10 years agoPost 1
nojohnny101

rrElite Veteran

10 miles north of​Cincy, OHIO

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hey
was just doing a routine check and making sure my Raptor 30v2 with an OS37 was in tip to shape...well i ran into something strange...

first i reset all the links going to the head so they are exactly equal with a digital calipers...next i went on to reset the throttle geometry with the throttle and all is good there..

finally i check the pitch and on one blade i get:
+12/-8
and on the other
+11/-9

what's up with that...i have Thunder Tiger 550mm carbons on there (black and white ones) and a kasama head with red dampers...all my links are the same length both sides...don't get why i would get getting different readings...

something in the radio?? (Airtronics RD8000)

Thanks
~Will-i-am~

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08-08-2007 08:51 PM  10 years agoPost 2
JEEPWORLD2002

rrKey Veteran

BLUEBELL PA USA

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how is your blade tracking ?

Trex600n Trex500 Mikado LoGo5003d// Hacker, CastleCreations,Ys 50, JR 7703d/8900, Radix

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08-08-2007 09:01 PM  10 years agoPost 3
JuanRodriguez

rrProfessor

The Villages,​Florida

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Swap the blades to the other side and see if your results are the same.... If so, I would say the blades are OK.

I would then look for a bent screw, most likely at the blade grip as a result of a previous crash.....

Additionally, the pitch guages are not that accurate so if the blades track OK, then more than likely you'll be fine. That is where Jeep was going...

To check the blade grip screw is easy to do......with the link on or off, it does not matter, unscrew the ball...... if the screw is bent, you'll see it "wiggle" as you unscrew it....

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08-08-2007 10:10 PM  10 years agoPost 4
nojohnny101

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10 miles north of​Cincy, OHIO

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hey
well i was just out flying...not pretty to say the least

i think this might be a multiple step problem...and not a single solution...

when i would spool up there would be a shimmy to the heli...and i realize this is normal when the blades are straightening out upon initial spool up..however it would do this every time

also here's what happens....when i am coming in a fast decent...if the headspeed gets too high (no clue...don't have a tach) the blades will go WAY out of track and it looks like it is going to explode....and then after this would happen the blades in a hover would be out of track again...where previously before the descent they were perfectly traking....

this isn't the woof and poof is it...i mean i have hte kasama head on there and carbon blades...i also have the modified white tail gear if that makes a difference...

right now i am going to check the bent screw (thanks for suggestion) and then check the main shaft and spindle...

one last thing....i have the greenie paddles and they are not held in place by anything...i mean they don't move ont he flybar (distance from the center) but they can pitch freely...the weak set screw in the plastic (dumb design) stripped very easily so i tried CA and that didn't work either to hold them aligned...

now i make sure they are aligned before i spool up everytime and they are tracking good in hover....but could this contribute to the problem when i am doing manuevers and putting load on the paddles...i thought centrifrical force would hold them in place

sorry for the long post

Thanks
~Will-i-am~

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08-08-2007 11:02 PM  10 years agoPost 5
legoman67

rrElite Veteran

Nanoose Bay B.C,​Canada

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adjust the linkage on the one side to match...

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08-09-2007 01:15 AM  10 years agoPost 6
JuanRodriguez

rrProfessor

The Villages,​Florida

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this isn't the woof and poof is it...i mean i have hte kasama head on there and carbon blades...i also have the modified white tail gear if that makes a difference...
Yes, I hate to be giving you the bad news but that's exactly what it is..... if the blade axle is not bent or one of your blade grip screws is not bent, I would be surprised..... sometimes the violent flutter you describe will actuall bend the spindle in flight....
also here's what happens....when i am coming in a fast decent...if the headspeed gets too high (no clue...don't have a tach) the blades will go WAY out of track and it looks like it is going to explode....and then after this would happen the blades in a hover would be out of track again...where previously before the descent they were perfectly traking....
See above......

Also, all carbon blades are not the same..... you could have a set of blades that are seriously out of whack and that can cause the problem.....

I would check for the bent stuff first and then try a different set of blades that are KNOWN to be good.... and go from there....

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08-09-2007 02:10 AM  10 years agoPost 7
4eye

rrApprentice

Honolulu

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pick a blade and do your basic blade tracking procedure and see if prob goes away before digging in and looking for bent stuff. If it flew fine before you decided to tweak everything then I doubt if anything is bent.

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08-09-2007 03:12 AM  10 years agoPost 8
cookie monster

rrApprentice

Los Angeles

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I too had the same problim and it was the carbon blades that had been in a crash but they never hit the ground or the boom... one blade had a slight bind or curve and i could not get them to track.

Miniature Aircraft fury extreme 90 710 radix Y.S 91

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08-09-2007 08:43 AM  10 years agoPost 9
nojohnny101

rrElite Veteran

10 miles north of​Cincy, OHIO

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hey
alright...update...

tore everything down and here's what i found:

-two bent blade grip screws
-a bent spindle
-a ever so slightly bent main shaft (going to replace it just to be safe)
-main grip bearings were in terrible shape

i can't believe i let my main grip bearings get so bad....i think it's because i have a bad habit of putting way too much loctite on the spindle bolts that hold the grip on...and it gets into the bearing and then seizes up...

i'm off to the hobby shop tomorrow to get bearings and a new spindle....

as soon as i get time to fly i'll report back and see if it's better

Thanks
~Will-i-am~

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08-09-2007 09:26 AM  10 years agoPost 10
knasbollen

rrNovice

sweden

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i have the greenie paddles and they are not held in place by anything...i mean they don't move ont he flybar (distance from the center) but they can pitch freely...the weak set screw in the plastic (dumb design) stripped very easily so i tried CA and that didn't work either to hold them aligned...
Same thing with the align plastic paddles I have on my stinger 50, I used RTV silicone on the flybar threads (think I read about that here on RR), hopefully that will prevent the paddles from twisting yet make it possible to remove if needed.

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08-09-2007 10:26 AM  10 years agoPost 11
SkateFreak

rrElite Veteran

Cambs UK

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sounds like the blades may be out...
Sometimes TT blades are ballanced with small led balls behind a silicon plug on one blade, if the blades get a knock you can sometimes hear the blade rattle if the weights have been dislodged, this can cause a previously known good pair of blades to behave erratically.

Bad grip bearings may account for the problem, let us know how it works out with better bearings in there

-Jvr

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08-09-2007 01:32 PM  10 years agoPost 12
JuanRodriguez

rrProfessor

The Villages,​Florida

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pick a blade and do your basic blade tracking procedure and see if prob goes away before digging in and looking for bent stuff. If it flew fine before you decided to tweak everything then I doubt if anything is bent
While I agree that a basic tracking adjustment is simple and should be done 101 had already stated that the blades were "tracking perfectly" initially during his flight.....it was later in the flight before the problem manifested itself.....

That being said, see my response to the quote below....
-two bent blade grip screws
-a bent spindle
Like I said in my post from yesterday , if you bend even one of the screws on your blade grips during a crash (very common, that's why I suggested you check them), it WILL cause the blades to go considerably out of track, back in track, etc., etc.......You'll wind up chasing your tail (like you did)....

What happens next during that violent flutter condition is that you bend your blade axle WHILE FLYING......

Then the problem just snowballs from there. No amount of tracking will correct the problem.......

As a side note to those that believe it's a "big deal" to check for bent stuff, it's really quite easy to check for a bent blade spindle... just remove one of the blades, stick an allen wrench into the spindle bolt and rotate...... if the axle is bent, you'll see the blade grips wiggle away....

Checking for a bent main shaft is a little more involved but you can have that shaft in hand in less than 5 minutes, literally......

Well worth the time to do things right to ensure success in the end.....

Anyhow, 101, glad you found the problem.......

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