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HelicopterMain Discussion › A123 12S2P charged in 15 minutes???
08-08-2007 03:34 PM  10 years agoPost 1
jivkot

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Sofia, Bulgaria

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Is that possible 12S2P charged in 15 minutes???
http://www.rcpilot.eu/docs/video/Ch..._Vigor12S2P.mov

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08-08-2007 03:40 PM  10 years agoPost 2
garry keogh

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Wicklow, Ireland

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Yes they do fast charge, and they do it at​high charge current too!

A friend of mine has bought some of these cells and they do charge in just a few minutes. I can get him to post here if there is enough interest.
He did ask me for advice on the maximum capactiy of his car battery/alternator with respect to the high current that these packs will draw during charge. From memory he recorded 20+ amps while charging.
They apparently have other advantages such as: No tendency to ignite during charge and an ability to recover from 100% discharge.
I am not an authority on the A123 but can find out more if there is interest.

Garry

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08-08-2007 03:45 PM  10 years agoPost 3
jivkot

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Sofia, Bulgaria

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Thanks Garry

Thanks for the answer but still wondering what a charger it should be for charging 12S2P simultaniously..

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08-08-2007 03:58 PM  10 years agoPost 4
JuanRodriguez

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The Villages,​Florida

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Thanks for the answer but still wondering what a charger it should be for charging 12S2P simultaniously..
A bigass one !!

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08-08-2007 04:51 PM  10 years agoPost 5
Climax

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West London, United​Kingdom

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I use A123 M1 cells in my Swift, although it's only a 7S1P pack...

To charge a 12S2P pack you'll be looking at a charger can source around 30 amps maintained at just under 45 volts!

Sounds like you need a CC/CV bench supply. After about 10 minutes of charging in constant current mode (CC) and when the voltage reaches approximately (12 * 3.6) 43.2 volts you'd flick it into CV mode (constant voltage) until the current tailed off to something reasonably small (a couple of hundred milli Amps). Some PSUs will do the CC/CV switchover automatically...

Take a look at power supply manufacturers like Mastech, but beware they are not particularly cheap...

It might be easy to rig the pack such that you could charge it as two 12S1P packs, but then you'd need two chragers!

Have fun!

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08-08-2007 05:22 PM  10 years agoPost 6
MJWS

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Airdrie, AB - Canada

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The cells aren't the issue at all. It's the 1000w chargers that don't exist. Most of the big ones still aren't much over 250w. But a Mastech 5020 would get you there as suggested earlier.

I experimented with putting a bunch of computer PSU's in series to get the high voltage and current necessary as well. Worked great. The cells will charge quite happily in 5 minutes if you feel like pushing them a little.

Truth is they charge faster then I can fly them out. I don't mind a break between flights and a chance to BS a little. So it ends up as a nice to have vs. need to have.

Mike

PS. That has to be one of the slickest looking rigs I have ever seen for charging that many cells. WOW. That guy did some nice nice work.

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08-08-2007 05:37 PM  10 years agoPost 7
Climax

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West London, United​Kingdom

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I can't actually play the movie? What is it, QuickTime?

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08-08-2007 06:04 PM  10 years agoPost 8
d_wheel

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Deep in the heart of​Texas.

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Is that possible 12S2P charged in 15 minutes???
Here's the one I use:

http://www.tanicpacks.com/catalog/p...products_id=712

Later;

D.W.

Gettin old aint for sissies!

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08-08-2007 06:21 PM  10 years agoPost 9
Climax

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West London, United​Kingdom

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Yup, that's the one, also as metioned by MJWS... Not a bad price either.

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08-08-2007 07:08 PM  10 years agoPost 10
MJWS

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Airdrie, AB - Canada

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Movie is quicktime. http://www.rcpilot.eu also has great pictures.

Looks like they essentially decouple to 4s(x)P for charging (very close to Pb and stock alternator on a car) then with their little plug reconfigure back to 12s2p for flight.

The cables and little charge boxes are super slick. Almost like a Highend KVM with everything integrated into single cables. Very Nice.

When the Chinese version hits I'm sure it will be popular.

Mike

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08-08-2007 07:30 PM  10 years agoPost 11
miskin

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south east england

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I use A123 M1 cells in my Swift, although it's only a 7S1P pack...
How do they compare to a 6S 20c lipo ?.. also what esc are you using.I would also like to try the A123 in my swift im currently using the 600+ ,CC60 esc and 6S TP and FP lipo's.

miskin

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08-08-2007 08:26 PM  10 years agoPost 12
Climax

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West London, United​Kingdom

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My Swift is a bit heavier than most as I've installed rather too many upgrades...

Anyway, I'm using a Jazz 80-6-16 ESC with a Tango 45-10 motor (9T pinion). If I run a 1750 head speed (530 SAB blades) then I get about 6 minutes before the A123s dump (they do this very quickly, as soon as the head speed starts to decay fly back and land!).

With a 2000 RPM head speed (10T pinion) I get about 4 to 4.5 minutes.

The other factor is flying style, and I guess I'd describe mine as mild/relaxed 3D...

I've not tried a conventional LiPo, but I will at some stage. I was always planning to get a 6S TP 5000mah pack, bearing in mind that a 7S A123 pack is roughly equivalent to this in terms of voltage, and that you can only use 80% of the TP capacity (i.e. it's really a 4000mah pack), then you'll get approximately 1700mah of extra capacity/flight time from the higher capacity TP LiPo. So depending on my head speed choice, as above, I could expect about 10 mins and 7.5 mins respectively when using the bigger TP pack. These figures will actually be less than this as the TP pack is a bit heavier that my 7S A123 pack.

Ideally when using A123 cells you want to up the voltage of the pack. Quite a few people use 10S, i.e. the uncased raw DeWalt pack as it comes so to speak. The only reason I'm not doing this is that my ESC can't cope with the higher voltage (I brought it with the intention of using 6S LiPo, A123 came along later...)

If you do a search here and elsewhere you'll find plenty of good reports when flying with 10S A123.

Hope this helps!

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08-21-2007 12:02 AM  10 years agoPost 13
Richard Morgan

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Virginia Beach,​Virginia USA

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Mastech gone mobile

I am in the process of switching to A123 cells for my Trex 600. I want to run 14s, but charging such a pack is something that only the Mastech 50 volt 20amp power suppliy can do at the charge rate I am interested in. My question is, has any one gone mobile with this power supply, by runhning it on an inverter? I am currently looking at a 12vdc 2500watt to 5000watt model. I am trying to find out if any one knows if the Mastech Power Supply would require a "pure sine wave inverter" (much cleaner signal source, and much more expensive!), or if it will run on a "modified sine wave inverter"? The place I fly has no AC source, so I need to go mobile. Any thoughts.

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08-21-2007 02:05 AM  10 years agoPost 14
andres.c

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pan

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check out the rcgroups topic Discussion - How are you going to charge (or use) your A123's?[url=http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=525664]youll find users using a Mastech with small portable generators

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08-27-2007 06:45 PM  10 years agoPost 15
rroback

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Irvine (UCI), Ca

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Where can you find good, multipole contacts that can handle decent current? Can i assume if a connector can say handle 10 amps at 100 volts, then it can handle 20 amps at 50v? I assume that connector is resistance, which really only deals with how much current is flowing.. so 10 amps is 10 amps..

Rhett..... I can't fly, but the Profi sure can.

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08-27-2007 06:52 PM  10 years agoPost 16
AirWolfRC

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42½ N, 83½ W

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When A123 cells get down to the same weight as LiPo's for the same energy, I would expect LoPo's to be history.

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08-27-2007 09:34 PM  10 years agoPost 17
midwestpilot

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Crystal Lake, IL

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do you think that is even possible...

or is the physical make up of the A123 going to preclude it from getting as light as Lipos

In life there is no spacebar!

Rich Erikson AMA 6175

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08-27-2007 09:38 PM  10 years agoPost 18
AirWolfRC

rrProfessor

42½ N, 83½ W

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Yes, I do. The A123 cells are, in fact, lithium ion to begin with but using nanophosphate for lower internal resistance (and the performance that goes along with that). They are made to handle harsher environments like power tools and cars and therefore are heavier. I'm waiting for marketing and technology evolution to take it's course.

http://www.a123systems.com

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08-28-2007 08:36 AM  10 years agoPost 19
Climax

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West London, United​Kingdom

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I've been using A123 M1 cells for a while now and think that they are great!

However, it interesting to note the some of the more recent LiPo developments in respect to the KongPower and AirThunder packs. I've not used AirThunder, but I have tried a 6S KongPower pack. You can't 100% discharge it like the M1 cells, but you can take it much further than a conventional LiPo. I don't know how many cycles I'll get, probably not as many as on the M1 cells (I have a test pack with over 350 cycles and it's still going strong!).

Anyway, interesting times... I'd like to know more about how these newer LiPos work, anyone know?

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08-28-2007 08:51 AM  10 years agoPost 20
ROSSM

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UK

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A123 CHARGER

I have just bought a "HYPERION" EOS 121Oi which will charge up to 12S 30N. It's a 2C Speed Charge. (12S 10 Amps). See web pages on this charger.

You will need TWO balancers to charge up to 12S.

Worth looking at. Does NiCADS NiMH and Lead Acids. Bit dear but blow the expense!

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HelicopterMain Discussion › A123 12S2P charged in 15 minutes???
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