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HelicopterSynergy R/CSynergy N9 › N9 Updtaes off Syergy's Site
08-08-2007 12:34 PM  10 years agoPost 1
Harts

rrApprentice

Victoria, Australia

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Has anybody done the updates on the Synergy site? They have a few kit updates on there such as longer ball links on the bell hiller arms and fly bar carrier, also shorter linkage lengths to the washout arms and using the outer holes on the wash out arms and the dual bearing upgrade. If you have done them did it make a difference in the air?
I know the dual bearing one has bee around for a while. The other 2 are new, I was always worried about the amount of binging you could get in the rotor head not that it has caused an issue in 100+ flights but after doing the above changes it has fixed it up a treat, there is only minimal binding now but to be expected when running travels to extremes.

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08-08-2007 01:44 PM  10 years agoPost 2
John Benario

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Las Vegas

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I have used the longer balls on the bell mixers since the beginning. The stock setup has fairly high flybar ratio. I wanted a little less flybar for my flying style. It just depends on your preferences. A mechanical advantage is the longer balls keep the angle of the mixer down a bit for better geometry.

John Benario

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08-13-2007 04:42 AM  10 years agoPost 3
Harts

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Victoria, Australia

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Test flew the changes over the weekend and WOW changed the machine heaps. I had to dial back swash ARF's as it was scary fast. Well worth doing not that control speed was an issue before the mod.

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08-14-2007 06:18 AM  10 years agoPost 4
billybob

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Torrance, CA

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i thought you were not supposed to use the outer holes on the washout arms??

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08-14-2007 06:27 AM  10 years agoPost 5
carcrasher

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east coast

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it can be done but I think you have to push the anti-rotation bracket forward some.

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08-14-2007 06:31 AM  10 years agoPost 6
billybob

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Torrance, CA

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i read on bob johnstons website that it was also because of to much paddle deflection resulting in stalling of the paddle. i personally would prefer to run the outer holes for more cyclic speed, but i am afraid it will hit the ears on the swash.

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08-14-2007 09:17 AM  10 years agoPost 7
Harts

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Victoria, Australia

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I like speedy cyclic myself so thats the main reason I decided to give it a go. I did a total of 5 flights between the 2 N9's I have on the weekend and there is no marks on the anti rotation guide.
I also reduced my swash arf's as the cyclic speed was extremely quick. I backed it of the a point were its a fair bit more then what I had but not stupid. Best thing is with reduced swash arf's for the same defection results in faster response times.
Another reason for doing the mods was less binding, My set up had a fair bit before and now there is very little. I was always worried about it but the links have held up well. The arms that go from the wash out to the swash had been hitting the swash in flight on the square edges where the balls thread on but this is also no longer an issue.
I could see how the amount of defection could cause stalling as its extremely quick but if you back down the cyclics it should be fine. The changes wont be for everyone thats for sure.

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08-14-2007 11:41 PM  10 years agoPost 8
billybob

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Torrance, CA

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if you reduce your afr, are'nt you reducing the servo resoloution since the servos are traveling less of a distance? just curious.

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08-15-2007 09:11 AM  10 years agoPost 9
Harts

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Victoria, Australia

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I guess that may be the case but every time I ask somebody to explain what servo resolution is and how it works I dont get much of an answer. I have done it on a few models and cant feel any difference apart from speed while flying so thats good enough for me.

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08-15-2007 05:14 PM  10 years agoPost 10
Chuckie

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Crofton Maryland

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I did all the upgrades. This spring I installed the longer flybar and link balls on the seesaw but I adjusted the cyclic with a pitch gauge to the same amount before the additions. The heli would track better in high speed flight. Due to the wind or just high air speed over the disk the heli would need more inputs to keep it straight. After installing the longer flybar and link balls I could fly the heli as fast as it would go and it would stay were I pointed it and the nose would not come up or tuck under. I'm talking about 100mph or faster.

You can get more cyclic deflection when using the longer balls so just use a pitch gauge to set the cyclic’s. Yes you will loose a little resolution but because the N9 rotor head has great stability I don't think you will feel the loss. Most people are using metal gear servos and the gear slop is more of a problem than the lost resolution.

If I remember correctly the longer balls add 1.5 degrees of cyclic so if you decide to keep the original cyclic you will reduce Swash AFR of about 4 to 6. The servo movement of 4 to 6 AFR is very small on the N9 due to the servo arm length. I first tried using 13mm servo arms in the N9 to give me as much resolution as the model design would allow but decided to settle on 14mm as a compromise between servo arm binding at extreme throws and resolution versus speed.

If 140 degrees of servo throw is 1024 steps (2048 in the 12/14MZ account for total servo throw) then each step is 0.1367 degrees. The 14mz swash AFR default is limited to 100 and you would need to increase the max to 140 to get 140 degrees. I assume then 100 AFR would give 100 degrees servo throw. In my 14mz my N9 is using about 60 AFR for Aileron or 8 degrees cyclic (14mm arms). So 100 AFR is using 731 steps and 60 is 438 steps, on each side of the servo throw. If I’m correct then each 1 AFR is 1 degree of servo movement or 7.3 steps. Loosing 4 or 6 AFR is no big deal when you have over 8 hundred steps for 120 degrees of servo travel. The point is I don’t think you could move the cyclic stick by hand small enough to only see one step of movement.

Regarding the other updates, I've been using the outer hole on the washout arms since last year. I did try the inner holes and found even with the same cyclic the heli was a little slower in reacting to pilot inputs. I prefer the outer holes but now I've installed the hyper arms and they use the inner hole distance. To compensate I've just increased the cyclic but I have not flow the new arms yet to see how the heli flys.

The shorter linkage lengths to the washout arms are to help when using the outer hole. I adjusted these lengths to account for links contacting the head block versus contacting the swash at full travel. Say full + pitch and forward elevator and full - pitch and backward elevator. Adjust the length to center the arm between these two extreme points.

When using the hyper arms I increased them by two turns from the stock settings to get them the correct center length as hitting the swash antirotation base is not an issue with the shorter arms.

You have two choices, one is to shorten the length to prevent the long arms from hitting the swashplate antirotation base, or use the longer length and short arms (hyper or cut stock arms) so the links don't contact the headblock and swashplate at extreme throws.

The dual ball bearing upgrade for the seesaw is a good idea to add support for the seesaw. Without it the single bearing on each side does have some play that you can feel if you move the flybar side to side. This upgrade as well as the hyper arms are intended to maintain the swash phasing which keeps the model in sync with the pilot inputs. These upgrades/updates will keep the model flying better for a longer period of time as the parts wear.

Yes I have some extra time on my hands.

Charles

Please stand by for faster service!

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08-15-2007 07:04 PM  10 years agoPost 11
loewermx

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Alexandria, La

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WOW Charles, thought that one through I see.

Thanks for the great explination.

Cajun Aircraft

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08-15-2007 10:30 PM  10 years agoPost 12
Harts

rrApprentice

Victoria, Australia

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At last a great explanation of resolution, I cant pick the difference to im happy. I think my swash arf's on the cyclic are down to about 53 now and im still using the shorter flybar and all stock parts. Thanks for filling me in.

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08-16-2007 01:42 PM  10 years agoPost 13
inkspot1967

rrProfessor

Cranston Ri

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charles is a man of perfection when it comes to setups...

right on chuck.....

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08-16-2007 02:29 PM  10 years agoPost 14
Chuckie

rrKey Veteran

Crofton Maryland

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Thanks guys but please don't mention the P word.

Harts, I recommend the longer fly bar and long ball links if you setup your N9 with high pitch and cyclic.

Charles

Please stand by for faster service!

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08-16-2007 02:33 PM  10 years agoPost 15
inkspot1967

rrProfessor

Cranston Ri

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what word perfection ....?

ok

perfection perfection perfection perfection perfection perfection perfection ....

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08-16-2007 08:27 PM  10 years agoPost 16
wore-out-pilot

rrApprentice

Jeffersonville, ​Indiana USA

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Charles your flying really looks sharp this year and your YS is running very smooth. Your Synergy rocks. Glad I got to say hello to you and also Inkspot1967. I had a ball at Ircha and also picked up the torque drive for one of my Synergy's.

MAKE-IT-HOT They call me aka the hammer

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08-17-2007 05:17 PM  10 years agoPost 17
Chuckie

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Crofton Maryland

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I had a blast at IRCHA as well and it was good meeting and seeing everyone again. Even though I was there most of the week it seems like the days went by too fast. Accept for Wednesday when the heat index was 105F. OC Bobs is coming up soon and I can't wait.

Charles

Please stand by for faster service!

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