RunRyder RC
 14  Topic Subscribe
WATCH
 4 pages [ <<    <     1     ( 2 )     3      4     NEXT    >> ] 2471 views
Scorpion Power Scorpion Power
HelicopterAerial Photography and Video › is there a benefit to using a dslr versus​something like a sony v3 7.2
08-09-2007 06:05 PM  10 years agoPost 21
AceBird

rrElite Veteran

Utica, NY USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

So it all comes down to how skillful the photographer is. Just like heli, it's up to the pilot.
We live in a technological era that keeps changing at a faster and faster pace. It no longer requires great skill to take a great photo; it no longer requires great skill to pilot a helicopter. The world of microprocessors and computers has taken most of the skill out. There is no technological reason for the existence of an SLR today. The clumsy lens was meant for film; the flipping mirror was meant for film. The photographer needs to decide what depth of field he wants and what composition he wants and that’s about it. The camera can automatically focus better than the human eye and set the exposure to optimum conditions. Once the CCD or CMOS chip has recorded the pixel values, software and a computer can add or subtract all the bells and whistles. In many cases it can do these bells and whistles automatically.

I suggest the use of industrial cameras for AP both for their ruggedness and quality. These cameras are capable of picking fly sh$t out of pepper. No human being is capable of picking fly sh$t out of pepper. I would doubt that the military is frogging around with SLR’s for reconnaissance missions.

Ace
What could be more fun?

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
08-09-2007 06:41 PM  10 years agoPost 22
Louisiana Helicam

rrKey Veteran

West Monroe, LA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

That's a rather blanket set of statements. Why don't you back it up by showing us what "industrial" cameras you're referring to.

www.louisianahelicam.com

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
08-09-2007 06:44 PM  10 years agoPost 23
CKY

rrVeteran

Sunshine Coast, BC,​Canada

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Sorry Ace, I think any serious photographer would disagree with you. I would think most accomplished heli fliers would disagree also.

It would take one hell of an accomplished CS2 user to claim he can add all the bells and whistles a decent photo should already have.

Less talk more examples please, yours not others :-(

Chris

PS...if your idea of a good photo is for "picking fly sh*t out of pepper" then most any camera will suit ya just fine, a macro lens would help a tad though

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
08-09-2007 06:50 PM  10 years agoPost 24
Louisiana Helicam

rrKey Veteran

West Monroe, LA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

The photographer needs to decide what depth of field he wants and what composition he wants and that’s about it.
Not with a P&S if that's what you're referring to. I've never dealt with a P&S that allows me to get the depth of field that I really want. You still need a good SLR if you're looking for great DOF.

www.louisianahelicam.com

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
08-09-2007 07:07 PM  10 years agoPost 25
Helicek

rrVeteran

istanbul - turkey

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

My experience in digital cameras is limited to using 2 not so different cameras. 1st was a Coolpix 5400 and 2nd (the current one) is a Coolpix 8400. I prefer this camera because it is light, small, produces good results, totally manual (but focus), built robust and buyable in Turkey. The photo counter has already evolved once. You have to remember that these cameras are slow. You simply can not shoot like an SLR does. You have to wait 3 to 5 secs between shots.

It is very critical how you market your AP services. The customer can evaluate your performance by examining your previous work and can tell whether it is going to be satisfactory or not. Then you have nothing to worry about your standards.

If I was to move up to a better DSLR with a $1000 w/a lens I probably would not get this many jobs (because I would charge much more). I charge 1,250YTL+expenses+tax (Turkish Lira=$US1.23) for a full days work(for your reference)

Taking a good photo that sells takes much more than just a fancy camera.

Ahmet

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
08-09-2007 07:51 PM  10 years agoPost 26
CKY

rrVeteran

Sunshine Coast, BC,​Canada

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Taking a good photo that sells takes much more than just a fancy camera.
Absolutely. If you have to ask what is the advantage to a DSLR is, then likely you may not be ready for one.

I like to tell people, buy anything, use it, when you outgrow it you will now have the knowledge to buy something that suits the purpose even better. If you think one lens or one camera will do the job for you, then it will.

Prefielding for time of day, angle of sun, type of sky/cloud wanted, height, distance, lens type, exposure compensation/bracketing range, types of filters to use/if any, etc. etc. does not come in any camera box that I am aware of.

Put a cheap camera in a pro's hands he will blow away any amature with a $5000 setup. (at least for a while :-)

Chris

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
08-09-2007 09:13 PM  10 years agoPost 27
kookboy

rrKey Veteran

Vancouver, BC

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

1st was a Coolpix 5400 and 2nd (the current one) is a Coolpix 8400. I prefer this camera because it is light, small, produces good results, totally manual (but focus), built robust
Nikon 8400

That's my main POS camera as well.

As slow, ugly and bulky it is (light though), the stock 24mm is great for AP work and you can't beat RAW editing.

Running a wide lens on it, it gets down to 18mm.

Not many AP'ers using the 8400 although it's a great, light option. It was marketed to mainly Real Estate agents because of the wide lens built in and discontinued unfortunately.

On topic, nothing beats a good SLR and photographer who can use it properly.

... But honey it was only $$$

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
08-09-2007 09:20 PM  10 years agoPost 28
aambrose

rrElite Veteran

Pana, IL

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

The clumsy lens was meant for film; the flipping mirror was meant for film.
Ace, once again I'm stupefied. I guess all the professional photographers (sports, wedding, aerial, you name it) should be using P&S cameras and sell those clumsy expensive lenses while they're at it! Just think of how much easier their job would be! Stupid lenses anyway. Who needs them!
Prefielding for time of day, angle of sun, type of sky/cloud wanted, height, distance, lens type, exposure compensation/bracketing range, types of filters to use/if any, etc. etc. does not come in any camera box that I am aware of.

Put a cheap camera in a pro's hands he will blow away any amature with a $5000 setup. (at least for a while :-)
Well stated Chris. I couldn't agree more. I think I'll go back to shooting aerial work with a P&S and save some money and weight. Maybe save the DSLR for snapshots.


Tony

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
08-09-2007 09:24 PM  10 years agoPost 29
AceBird

rrElite Veteran

Utica, NY USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I think any serious photographer would disagree with you. I would think most accomplished heli fliers would disagree also.
Of course they will. No one likes to see their skills replaced by a technological advancement. But the consumer does because it usually means a lower price for the same product. The fact of the matter is many people on this forum have gotten into AP a lot easier than those of you that were doing it 10 years ago. And that is because of technology.

Is there an industrial camera that is well suited for AP with a helicopter right now? Probably not. But not because it can’t be done. It is more so because there is not a demand for it right now so the specialized software needed to do what you want it to do doesn’t exist or is locked up by government non disclosure agreements. Military advancements eventually find there way into commercial applications especially when the advancements become outdated by new advancements.

Companies like Cognex, IPD, Keyence have specialized software for industrial applications. Most companies use cameras built by Sony, Canon, Toshiba and the like but some make their own or modify the hardware to fit their software better. I guess my point is as long as you people are going to take a slr that was meant to be hand held or mounted to a tripod and strap it to a heli there will never be a demand for a system meant for what you are doing.

Heck if all you are looking for is a still image you take 100 photos in about 10 seconds at the same vantage point and then have your software analyze these not so great photos and make one perfect photo. That’s how you pick fly sh$t out of pepper. You don’t make one perfect photo with the camera you make one perfect photo with 100 camera shots and a computer. You think the crystal clear photos they get from solar systems light years away come from one snap? I don’t think so.

Ace
What could be more fun?

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
08-09-2007 09:26 PM  10 years agoPost 30
Louisiana Helicam

rrKey Veteran

West Monroe, LA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Ace, why don't I take my digital SLR and you take your most awesome point and shoot and we go out and do some night shots.

How about something like F32 for Depth of Field (Oh, yours won't do that?) and a shutter speed of around 30 seconds or more (oh wait, yours won't do that either?)? Sound like a plan?

We'll see who rules.

I'm not knocking P&S cameras. I, for one, use one for my AP business as well. But, knocking a good SLR...especially when compared to a small P&S is just BS.

www.louisianahelicam.com

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
08-09-2007 09:30 PM  10 years agoPost 31
AceBird

rrElite Veteran

Utica, NY USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Ace, once again I'm stupefied. I guess all the professional photographers (sports, wedding, aerial, you name it) should be using P&S cameras and sell those clumsy expensive lenses while they're at it! Just think of how much easier their job would be! Stupid lenses anyway. Who needs them!
Boy I would like to frame this statement and send it back to you in ten years. The POS you see today will not be the POS you see tomorrow when the demand for the obsolete SLR gets realized.

Ace
What could be more fun?

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
08-09-2007 09:46 PM  10 years agoPost 32
kiwidave1

rrVeteran

Seattle, WA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Acebird, I know that you live in a world all of your own making but for us that are living in todays REAL world and not 10 years in the magical future the SLR is still the best option for professional photography.

Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
08-09-2007 10:56 PM  10 years agoPost 33
Louisiana Helicam

rrKey Veteran

West Monroe, LA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Acebird, go take a photography class and then come back to voice your opinions.

www.louisianahelicam.com

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
08-09-2007 11:46 PM  10 years agoPost 34
Ben H

rrApprentice

South / South West ,​UK

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

DSLR if you want to make money, P&S if it's for hobby.
I don't agree, we are using the Canon A620 with great results, and making money from it. There's more to it than just the camera.

Ben
http://www.aerialpics.org

Ben.... "what goes up, must come down!"

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
08-09-2007 11:59 PM  10 years agoPost 35
Ben H

rrApprentice

South / South West ,​UK

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

There's more to it than just the camera.
That said, I will still use my Nikon DSLR for all my ground shots, and anytime I want a really special shot from the heli, it's just most shots I sell dont need the slr or the risk of sending it up.

Ben
http://www.aerialpics.org

Ben.... "what goes up, must come down!"

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
08-10-2007 01:21 AM  10 years agoPost 36
BigguyOz

rrKey Veteran

Forster, New South​Wales, Australia

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Reference point: If you check back through this forum, Ace was the guy who planned to enter the AP world using a film camera because he couldn't justify using a digital camera. He didn't think the need to get the film processed before seeing if he got a good photo or not would be a problem.

Oh yes, 100 shots in 10 seconds? Which camera does this?

So all you guys who are newer here should take that on board when assessing the credibility of Gyro Gearloose

Tony Stott

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
08-10-2007 02:05 AM  10 years agoPost 37
SeismicCWave

rrVeteran

Hilo, Hawaii

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Interesting how this thread has gotten into a DSLR versus point and shoot debate.

The original poster asked if there is a "benefit" to using a DSLR versus a Sony V3 point and shoot.

So the first answer should be yes there are a lot of benefits but instead of just answering maybe we need to stop and explain the benefits AND explain about the costs of a DSLR.

There ain't no free lunch in this world. Plain and simple. You can't have your cake and eat it too. That said the DSLR will in general give you pictures that can be processed to a finer degree. You will come out with better quality pictures if done properly. However there are lots of costs involved. The DSLR is not the panecea of AP either.

The biggest costs (costs doesn't have to mean dollars in this case) I see at this point is that the lift limitation of the Trex 600. You will have a hard time pulling up a normal DSLR. The Canon Digital Rebel, Pentax K100D and Nikon D40 are fairly light and you can probably pull it up with their perspective standard kit lens. Then your image quality may not be as good as some of the better point and shoot (possibly even the V3). The quality of the picture has to do a lot with the lens and the sensor. The Nikon DSLRs all use a smaller sensor but the image quality is pretty good. The Canon Rebel, 30D use the smaller sensor but the 5D and Mark 1 use the larger sensor. The larger sensor will give you even better quality pictures but it will cost you money and weight. If you shoot in RAW with the V3 you may be able to manipulate the image enough to be very good.

For AP use you really don't have to worry about zoom lens and looking through the view finder in the air. If you don't know what the picture frame looks like it is really hard to compose your image. Most AP guys will put a telemetry downlink to compose their picture but the downlink camera don't have to zoom the same rate as the DSLR lens. For that matter the downlink camera may not even zoom or have the same angle of view.

Now the advantage of the point and shoot. They are cheaper and LIGHTER. Something like the Canon A640 and the Leica or Panasonic Lumix can get you picture quality that rival the DSLR. If you use a simple wide angle shot and some Photoshop work I really doubt too many people can tell the difference in your photo. Of course there will be Ford lovers and Chevy lovers where they simply like what they like without reasons.

The most benefit I can see with a point and shoot camera is that some of them are easier to compose the picture because you can hook the camera up directly to the downlink transmitter. You are looking at the picture you want to frame. Just snap away when you are ready.

You are generally not using any flash doing AP and you are most likely not taking any NIGHT shots unless you absolutely have to. So the DSLR benefit is no longer valid there.

I can go on and on about the costs and benefits of both. Since we all have some sort of budget contrain you have to look at what you want to do and how much you want to spend.

Don't just buy the pie in the sky because some one on a bulletin board thinks it is hot.

One of the least expensive setup I did was with a disposable film camera mounted in a Kavan Wingo foam electric. I took some AP for a local school. I did another school with the then lightest digital point and shoot (The Minolta DimageX) that has some image quality better than the Aiptek or Mustek.

As to shooting wedding with a point and shoot as some poster insisted that you are not suppose to do. I beg to differ. When I shoot a wedding I use a medium format for the formals, a 35 mm for most of the walk arounds and I carry a film point and shoot (There were any high quality digitals at that time) for candid shots.

As a matter of fact I once read an idea about bringing a bunch of disposable cameras and hand it out to some of the more out going guests and children and let them go wild to get your candid shots.

So my point is not to get anyone mad but to point out that there is a time and place for everything and nothing is free. So your answer is not all clear cut. Depending on your clientele and demand the Sony V3 may be your best bet.

(Edited for clarity)

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
08-10-2007 02:40 AM  10 years agoPost 38
lowandslow

rrKey Veteran

Spring Hill, TN

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

"DSLR if you want to make money, P&S if it's for hobby"

"A sony V3 is really a crappy camera."

You can't be serious?

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
08-10-2007 03:57 AM  10 years agoPost 39
abwomack

rrVeteran

Houston, TX - U.S.

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

thanks seismicwave that was a great answer, just what i was looking for, still not sure what to buy but i feel like i am getting closer to making an educated purchase.

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
08-10-2007 04:45 AM  10 years agoPost 40
kiwidave1

rrVeteran

Seattle, WA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

"DSLR if you want to make money, P&S if it's for hobby"

"A sony V3 is really a crappy camera."

You can't be serious?
I see you use it for your photos. Compared to other newer PnS out there and compared to a dslr such as the D40, yea, I think it is a crappy camera. Of course most other people don't care what I think and I would imagine you feel the same

David

Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
WATCH
 4 pages [ <<    <     1     ( 2 )     3      4     NEXT    >> ] 2471 views
Scorpion Power Scorpion Power
HelicopterAerial Photography and Video › is there a benefit to using a dslr versus​something like a sony v3 7.2
 Print TOPIC  Make Suggestion 

 14  Topic Subscribe

Wednesday, November 22 - 7:07 am - Copyright © 2000-2017 RunRyder   EMAILEnable Cookies

Login Here
 New Subscriptions 
 Buddies Online