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HelicopterFlybarless Rotor Head SystemsOther › Flybarless head for T-rex 450
08-07-2007 06:12 AM  10 years agoPost 1
hercflyer

rrNovice

Des Moines, WA. USA

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Does anyone know how to buy, build and set-up a flybarless head for the T-rex 450? Or at least where to find the parts, and some issues that have come up that can be avoided? Any knowledge concerning this, that you would be willing to impart would be most useful in helping with a scale JMD project.

-Jason

Go big or go home!

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08-07-2007 10:07 AM  10 years agoPost 2
Hoverup

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Golden Gulf Coast -​USA

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http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...lybarless+T+Rex

Cheers - Boyd
AMA 80393
IRCHA 3355
LSF 853
Major USAF
Retired

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08-09-2007 05:29 AM  10 years agoPost 3
hercflyer

rrNovice

Des Moines, WA. USA

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Thanks Major, I have read that one before, but I am glad you sent that to me. I'm guessing that it will be more than simply purchasing the equipment and installing said equipment huh?

I'm still kinda new to the build portion of this hobby, and that I am not(regrettably) able to determine exactly what is being shown. Also, there is mention of an additional gyro in use. Do you personally have any experience in this? If so, would you mind explaining a little bit of it to me, or point me in a better direction to decipher this myself?

Any knowledge that you can impart to me will be greatly appreciated. Thank you sir.

-SSG Jason Strunk
C-130 LM
USAFR

Go big or go home!

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08-10-2007 02:01 AM  10 years agoPost 4
Super-Hornet

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Singapore

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Hi Jason Strunk

What would u like to know more or what are the thing u need clarification?

SH

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08-10-2007 10:06 PM  10 years agoPost 5
optikaman

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EnglishTown N.J.

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Jason, i have not done a flyberless head for a 450 but i have built and flown my own flybarless head for MS Hornet.

how can we help you?

Alan

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08-11-2007 04:29 AM  10 years agoPost 6
hercflyer

rrNovice

Des Moines, WA. USA

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Have you guys seen the flybarless head on eco8gator's trex 450?

I like the clean lines of it. What I'm really trying to do is build a flybarless head that is a proven system, that the parts are readily available and easy to find, I would like cleanliness (clean build), and cost efficient if there is such a thing. The reason I ask all that, is that I am not very experienced in building complex heli accessories, and I don't yet know enough of what I am doing to do something experimental, and make it work. I just don't have that much experience.

I can fly decently enough (enough for my own liking), and I really enjoy the simplicity and beauty of a perfect scale ship. I have several nitro scale ships, and I really enjoy them, but I would like to turn my Trex 450 and 600 into scale as well. (the 600 is slated for the 5 blade head from deetee enterprises onve it becomes availabe).

I have basically determined that I will need 3 CSM gyros, some sort of cyclock, and the head assembly. But what I need is just input from various people to see what works best with what. Just trying to gain knowledge from other's opinions. So that's the sort of help I need right now.

Any suggestions would very welcome. SuperHornet, I have seen your work (pavehawk UH-60, and your trex flybarless), very impressive! I only wish I had that kind of knowledge to make something like that work.

Thanks all!
-Jason

Go big or go home!

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08-11-2007 05:50 AM  10 years agoPost 7
Super-Hornet

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Singapore

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Thanks for the compliment...

Well I did have 5 bladed rotor for TRex450 also (did because I damage it and too lazy to repair/rebuild it)

So far I have tried DIY 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6 bladed TRex. The more blades u have, the more stable it goes BUT it become more like a real heli (according a friend who tried mine) whereby it become sluggish when trying to change direction (during forward flight).

The method use by eco8gator is considered a direct swash plate control. This method tend to have very very sensitive cyclic and pitch control.

For TRex, u can either go for:
1. mCCPM and just connect gyros to the cyclic channels.
2. eCCPM 120 Degree and use onboard eCCPM mixer like Helitronix and gyros.
3. eCCPM 90 Degree and use 2 pieces of V-Tail mixing with gyros or Helitronix with gyros (can Helitronix configure to run in eCCPM 90? I not sure)

For #1, This method is the easiest BUT not the best. Make sure your mechanical mixing/linkages is free from any freeplay...especially the elevator rocker. If it has some freeplay, that will propagate to your cyclic control, and in direct control method, it become worse.

For #2, U need Helitronix or some other onboard eCCPM mixer. this method should be the best but the most expensive.

For #3, U require to modify your TRex so that it become eCCPM 90Degree. U can either use 3 servos for cyclics or 4 servos. Use the SAME model and brand for the V-Tail Mixer. Note that Futaba GY240 and GY401 tend to NOT COMPATIBLE to most brand V-Tail mixer. The best is to use GWS PG-03 gyro or other Rate mode gyros. I do not have Futaba G190 to test so I not sure about the compatibility.

For 2 bladed TRex, the easies method u can use (without building your own rotor head)...is to reuse most of the TRex parts. U can reuse the Hub and the blade grips (spindles and etc). For Swash Plate follower/Driver, u can actually use the wash out with the mixer instead. This will give u pretty good configuration.

SH

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08-11-2007 05:59 AM  10 years agoPost 8
optikaman

rrVeteran

EnglishTown N.J.

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Jason, you already have most of what you will need to convert your existing heads to a flybarless versions.

remove all mixing arms and the flybar system from the original head, connect the blade grips directly to the inner ring of the swash plate. purchase a swash plate follower as well.

You will also need to route a channel in the blades near the tip and 1/4 inch aft of the leading edge to accept some lead to increase the weight and shift the CG of the blades, you will need to experiment with the amount of weight needed. for the MS Hornet i added 5 grams of lead to each blade. With the added weight in the blades no gyro was needed for forward flight and the whole system was very stable!

If you don't want to mess with the blade weight i will strongly suggest a two axis gyro or two gy401 servos.

another suggestion would be to purchase a flybarless head from vario for your 600 and a set of blades to go with it.

If you have any questions pm me.

Alan

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08-11-2007 06:08 AM  10 years agoPost 9
Super-Hornet

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Singapore

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Ehhh.. I think Jason is referring to TRex450... not 600.

SH

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08-11-2007 06:28 AM  10 years agoPost 10
optikaman

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EnglishTown N.J.

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The same would apply to both the 450 and 600, exclude the vario reference as it was for the 600 only.

A follower for the 450 can be made from a mast holder, 2mm threaded rod and a ball link.

Alan

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08-12-2007 06:02 AM  10 years agoPost 11
hercflyer

rrNovice

Des Moines, WA. USA

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Thank you both. I am going to pick one, try it and send you pictures of a successful flight, or the hole where my 450 used to be,LOL! I work at an RC shop, so I can get the parts easily and cheaply enough. Wish me luck, I'll keep you posted.

On a side note, the 600 is in fact getting the 5 blade head from Deetee. The 450 is the only one I'm converting to a 2 blade. It will not be flown as a 3D ship, but instead, as a scale ship. Thanks again for the expert advice, I will see that it gets put to good use!

-Jason

Go big or go home!

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08-12-2007 08:01 AM  10 years agoPost 12
R.J.

rrVeteran

SF bay area, CA USA

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hercflyer,

The man you want to talk to is JMD himself. Here is a picture of his flybarless Trex 450 in his Airwolf fuselage. He flew it and some 3 and 5 blade multiblade heads extremely well. No gyros and in wind.

Perhaps a little off topic, but here is some info on my flybarless head for my Shogun/ Zoom 400 heli.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...ight=flybarless

Regards,
Rick

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