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HelicopterMain Discussion › flight question
08-07-2007 02:29 AM  10 years agoPost 1
fenderstrat

rrProfessor

Aston,Pa

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The last couple of weeks I've really been putting some time in learning hover in ALL orientations(started flying in march)now I just started some FF and its going well but I seem to have a problem with altitude....I can keep direction well but the heli keeps rising and falling.....is this too much cyclic or do I need to compensate with throttle more?any tips or advice appreciated

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08-07-2007 02:32 AM  10 years agoPost 2
GimbalFan (RIP)

rrProfessor

Big Coppitt Key, FL

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Pop the access cover off your Stratocaster and adjust the tension on your neck -- your strings are clearly too high above the fretboard.

op-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-t

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08-07-2007 02:35 AM  10 years agoPost 3
fenderstrat

rrProfessor

Aston,Pa

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but thats how you get great tone!!

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08-07-2007 02:38 AM  10 years agoPost 4
702nitro

rrKey Veteran

Las Vegas, NV

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Your nose is probably not tilted down enough. With enough nose tilt and the right amount of throttle, you should gain some serious velocity.

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08-07-2007 02:40 AM  10 years agoPost 5
Leif

rrElite Veteran

USA

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You need to learn to compensate with COLLECTIVE (that's what you're calling throttle), but the function you're mostly changing is main blade collective pitch.

When the heli starts moving, lift changes with a whole range of variables. Relative windspeed, angle of attack and ground effect are three of these variables that result in you needing to add or subtract collective much more when learning forward flight compared to just learning to hover.

It's not that difficult, but it does take practice.

Leif

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08-07-2007 02:43 AM  10 years agoPost 6
fenderstrat

rrProfessor

Aston,Pa

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But I'm trying to keep things SLOW now and the heli gets kind of "floaty"...which leads to my problem

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08-07-2007 02:51 AM  10 years agoPost 7
fenderstrat

rrProfessor

Aston,Pa

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thanks,I'll try those ideas tomorrow.along with more practice,practice, practice

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08-07-2007 04:05 AM  10 years agoPost 8
skydude

rrNovice

Gainesville,​Florida, USA

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It does not take quite as much thrust when moving forward so as it starts moving you need to drop the collective ever so slightly. When coming to a hover it is the opposite. You need to give a slight, smooth little pop to keep it from losing altitude.

You will be glad you mastered the orientations. It changed my world. The rest is relatively straightforward.

Watch out all you moles!!! (Vae, puto deus fio)

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08-07-2007 04:44 AM  10 years agoPost 9
HHawk

rrVeteran

Gardnerville Nv.

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Leif said it best, and with more time at the sticks and the sim, you'll get more adept at controlling altitude.

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08-07-2007 05:28 AM  10 years agoPost 10
turboomni

rrProfessor

East of the Equator

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The faster the heli goes forward at the same altitude the less collective is required. When hovering you need the most collective pitch because the main rotor has to draw in the air then thrust it downward. When in fast forward flight the air is force fed into the main rotor the faster you go and requires less and less collective pitch to maintain altitude as you go faster.
The forward thrust then becomes more from the forward cyclic and the collective diminishes because of the better efficiency of the main blades as the speed increases. It's a balancing act.
As you go faster in the same altitiude you need less collective because the efficiency of the mains gets better as foward speed increases. Good grief I hope this makes sense..............

Setup is everything, All my heli's can fly far better than I can pilot them

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08-07-2007 05:58 AM  10 years agoPost 11
helibird

rrKey Veteran

St. George, UT

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I think it's called transitional lift. As you begin forward flight the approaching blade is moving thru the air and is creating more lift therefore you need less throttle/collective to hold altitude. The reverse is true as you slow to a stop you will have to add collective/throttle. Sounds complicated but practice more and you will natural compensate for it. You are constantly moving the sticks compensating for one thing or another when your flying heli's. This doesn't sound like a setup problem so practice,practice,practice.

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08-07-2007 06:39 AM  10 years agoPost 12
legoman67

rrElite Veteran

Nanoose Bay B.C,​Canada

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im in a simular stage with my flying, i am just getting into figure 8's and have found that when going slow, like i am assuming you are, it is very pitchy, i find that on the simulator too, but as soon as you pick up speed the forward motion help and it is less pitchy, dunno why this is, but just what i have figured, you will need alot of throttle compensating when doing slow FF

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08-07-2007 07:14 AM  10 years agoPost 13
mikeflyz

rrApprentice

Westlake Village, CA

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I think it's called transitional lift. As you begin forward flight the approaching blade is moving thru the air and is creating more lift therefore you need less throttle/collective to hold altitude
Yes, it's called translational lift, but it is not from the advancing blade developing more lift when flying forward (that is dissymetry of lift, something else entirely).

Without getting too crazy with the details, more power is required in a hover partly from the air the blades are using is actually recycled air. It goes out the bottom and recirculates to the top and re-enters the rotor disk with some downward velocity (induced flow). That is like trying to climb a descending escalator. More power is required.


Recycled air in a hover

In forward flight, the air passes through the rotor disk only once. There is much less induced flow and therefore less power required.


Fresh air in forward flight

Mike
MA Fury Extreme, JetCopter SX

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08-07-2007 10:04 AM  10 years agoPost 14
DJDAZ

rrVeteran

Perth Western​Australia

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Thats cute!

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08-07-2007 10:34 AM  10 years agoPost 15
hootowl

rrProfessor

Garnet Valley, Pa.

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You also might have a pitch curve that's a little spikey

Wolves don't lose sleep over the opinions of sheep

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08-07-2007 11:45 AM  10 years agoPost 16
fenderstrat

rrProfessor

Aston,Pa

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Thanks,those replys are great!!!....my pitch curves are -2/+10 in norm......-10/+10 in idle up is this right for where I am?...I can hover in all orientations...working on SLOW FF and 8's

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08-07-2007 11:46 AM  10 years agoPost 17
JMF

rrApprentice

Clinton

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But I'm trying to keep things SLOW now and the heli gets kind of "floaty"...which leads to my problem
Check your pitch and throttle curves. Sounds like you have to much pitch around midstick which will make it feel floaty.
I run on a 5 point pitch curve; -11, -5, 0, +5, +12.
You have a pitch gauge? If not grab yourself one.

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08-07-2007 11:57 AM  10 years agoPost 18
fenderstrat

rrProfessor

Aston,Pa

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in idle up I'm running -10/-5/0/+5/+10.....with a linear thr. curve 0-25-50-75-100
....pitch curve measured with a guage

edit that, thats my norm throttle curve my idle up is 100-75-50-75-100

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08-07-2007 01:28 PM  10 years agoPost 19
pgoelz

rrVeteran

Rochester MI

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I had the same problem when I started flying FFF (on a Raptor). My hover skills were fine but in FFF I kinda reverted to "airplane" mode and left the collective in one place and controlled altitude with the cyclic. Because of translational lift, to hold the same altitude once in FFF required a more nose down attitude and the heli got moving much faster than I intended. As has been said above, the trick is to back off on the collective instead of dropping the nose to hold a constant altitude. After a while, it becoms automatic.

Your blades may or may not be contributing to the "pitchiness" you describe. I am pretty new to the Trex and am using the Align 325 Pro woodies. They fly very smooth and stable / predictable at about 2300 RPM. The only other blades I have tried so far have been the Align 325 "Fiber" blades (still not sure where the "fiber" is), which by comparison were awful. They felt pitchy, but I think in fact they are heavier and slower to respond and I was overcontrolling due to the much longer control respose. I found them much harder to fly and went back to the woodies ASAP. For $13 they are great.

As an aside, last year I took an hour of dual instruction in a Bell-47 (the MASH heli) and had the same trouble. It took a bit more of my brain power than I had at the time to manage the collective, cyclic, head speed (throttle is totally manual on the 47), rudder, airspeed, position and altitude. So I tended to leave the collective and throttle alone after transitioning to forward flight. Since I WAS paying attention to airspeed, I tended to gain altitude.

Paul Goelz
Rochester MI USA
http://www.pgoelz.com

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08-07-2007 02:29 PM  10 years agoPost 20
Hotwings

rrKey Veteran

Florida, West Palm​Beach.

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it sounds to me as if you are flying in normal, if you fly in idle up the power and headspeed constancy help a lot. in normal when you drop collective you also drop rpm and vice versa. Ron

Please cancel my clearance, I have the field in sight. Got my RW Turbine Waiver, need lottery!

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