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HelicopterAlignOther › Better looking one way bearing.... Got one
09-12-2007 06:26 PM  10 years agoPost 101
kingair

rrKey Veteran

Utah - USA

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My friend flies a JR Airskipper with the "proper design" radials on either side of the one way and it locks up. The raptor one way is supported on either side of the one way with sintered bushings. I believe in the raptor the lockups were mostly traced to over tightening the lower jesus bolt which deformed the shaft.

I've said it before but I've never had a lockup on my 600 so I guess my one way is the "proper design" . I've searched and I have yet to find a model of heli without some occurrences of one way lockup.

There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."

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09-12-2007 06:35 PM  10 years agoPost 102
GScott

rrElite Veteran

Lewis Center, OH

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I'm sure you can find instances of lockups on every heli out there but I seriously doubt you will find one that is as widespread as the 600n. And yes it will cost Align more to fix this problem. That is the price you pay for releasing a suspect design. My point was the correct design would not cost much more than the current design and should not have any effect on the overall kit price.

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09-12-2007 07:01 PM  10 years agoPost 103
kingair

rrKey Veteran

Utah - USA

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The question is what is the correct design? If all models lock up to some extent, which they do from what I gather in my searching what makes one design the correct one. I know this sounds really stupid and it is somewhat sarcastic but I'm glad I have the design of the 600 nitro because it has never locked up. My raptor locked in the beginning but got over the problem and was extremely reliable. My friend's airskipper started out great but started locking up eventually. I've read all kinds of posts on lock ups with the N9 and the list goes on with out exception of model. Any design someone claims to be the correct design is pure speculation, not fact. I'm hesitant to read to much into the 600 failures because although it appears to be a widespread problem, only the problems are talked about on forums. The 600N is quickly becoming a very widespread and popular heli yet I only read complaints from a handful of people on the forums and some of them are very vocal to say the least. I think it's easy to get the impression the problem is worse than it is. I'm not saying I don't think there's a problem but forums sure have a tendency to skew the picture.

There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."

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09-12-2007 07:26 PM  10 years agoPost 104
hootowl

rrProfessor

Garnet Valley, Pa.

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What is the correct design.... one that doesn't fail. One that follows manufacturers recommendations. Why do you think Hirobo and MA one ways are a bit more costly... same shaft diameter?

You don't need this forum to understand the breadth of the problem. Go to a big funfly and ask every owner.

Study up on manufacturers design criteria. You apparently aren't reading the quotes I've posted directly out of the design manuals.

They are using the cheapest needle style clutch available to man and ignoring the design criteria.

You got a good one but the rest of the world got bad ones. Go figure.

Wolves don't lose sleep over the opinions of sheep

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09-12-2007 07:36 PM  10 years agoPost 105
GScott

rrElite Veteran

Lewis Center, OH

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Sorry but the problem is much more widespread on the 600n. Go search the JR forum, the Hirobo forum, Synergy, and even Thunder Tiger. All have heli's out much longer than the 600n and much fewer reported incidents. You may find 4-5 reported oneway lockups on the others with the majority not having issues. The 600n is almost a polar opposite with the smaller number reporting no issues and the majority having lockups. So you tell me which design is flawed. I have built and flown almost every major 50 out there and never experienced a lockup until I built a 600n.

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09-12-2007 09:31 PM  10 years agoPost 106
kingair

rrKey Veteran

Utah - USA

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I'm not saying I don't think there is a problem but nobody seems to be able to nail down what the problem is or should I say what needs to be done to solve the problem. Clearly the problem is lock ups.
What is the correct design.... one that doesn't fail
Good one, sounds like you have a real handle on the issue.
You got a good one but the rest of the world got bad ones.
That's just stupid. I've read plenty of post by people saying they haven't had lockups.
Go search the JR forum, the Hirobo forum, Synergy, and even Thunder Tiger. All have heli's out much longer than the 600n and much fewer reported incidents.
I disagree, and I have searched, many models have had widespread issues with the one ways especially in the beginning of their production. Fewer reported incidents now with some models, I agree.

There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."

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09-13-2007 12:13 AM  10 years agoPost 107
hootowl

rrProfessor

Garnet Valley, Pa.

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I'm not redesigning it as it has already been done.
I'm installing this at next lockup. Have it in hand. The center sleeve is pressed into the bearing. The bearing has it's own sprague race.

Wolves don't lose sleep over the opinions of sheep

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09-13-2007 12:20 AM  10 years agoPost 108
JAGNZ

rrProfessor

Auckland, New​Zealand

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But look at the price! Ouch! I think I'd try a better bearing first. Much cheaper and many have good luck with that.


Jason Greenwood

www.3dheli.co.nz

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09-13-2007 12:21 AM  10 years agoPost 109
hootowl

rrProfessor

Garnet Valley, Pa.

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Pay once, fly continous

Wolves don't lose sleep over the opinions of sheep

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09-13-2007 12:27 AM  10 years agoPost 110
JAGNZ

rrProfessor

Auckland, New​Zealand

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Yeah but that makes this kit not so cheap anymore doesn't it? I mean if a $10-$15 bearing solves the problem, isn't that the point of the exercise? I have not read of a single lockup of an aftermarket bearing yet...maybe I just missed it somewhere.


Jason Greenwood

www.3dheli.co.nz

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09-13-2007 12:36 AM  10 years agoPost 111
LukeRC

rrNovice

San Diego

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How many time have you seen a one way bearing hub design, with only a one way bearing along? from Hirobo to JR to Synergy to Xcell to... all the design of the one way bearing part, is either using sprague or using the one way bearing with bushing or ball bearing on the top and bottom to absorb all the force from rotation. The high speed rotation (2000+rpm) generate a big force from the vibrations. The Trex 600N design is not very good, because they are relying on the one way bearing to handle the entire pressure. Under the regular flying condition, it might work just fine, but if the rpm increase or some crazy 3D tricks had been performed, the one way bearing will eventually run out of juice. it is just the matter of time.

Solves the problems and improves performances

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09-13-2007 12:39 AM  10 years agoPost 112
JAGNZ

rrProfessor

Auckland, New​Zealand

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It IS supported though! It has a bearing block above and below it. What we need is a bearing that can handle the varying tolerances of the main shaft carriers that Align produces. Aftermarket bearings provide this it seems.

Look, I'm not trying to start a war here but I, myself am NOT going to spend huge sums on a totally new hub. The occasional bearing replacement I can handle....if it is even required.


Jason Greenwood

www.3dheli.co.nz

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09-13-2007 01:11 AM  10 years agoPost 113
tchavei

rrProfessor

Portugal

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Aftermarket bearings provide this it seems.
Unfortunately the NSK failed in the hands of hootowl and Alans Szabo Sr. So that theory goes down the drain.

Does anybody have a large pic of a boca one way bearing? I wonder who actually makes it...?

My one way is still stock but predicting that it will fail I have started a small stock of one ways (and 12.02mm sleeves) but the VXB don't look that good (can't find a reference of who actually made them) and the INA... well its the same company that made the stock albeit it looks different. I only need a boca one to finish my stash but would like to know who actually makes them there arn't that many companies doing bearings in the world...

Tony


--------------------
"Perfection and patience usually walk side by side..."

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09-13-2007 01:26 AM  10 years agoPost 114
JAGNZ

rrProfessor

Auckland, New​Zealand

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I had to get some stuff from ReadyHeli anyway so I am going to give their el-cheapo bearings a try. I still stand by my claim that a GOOD one-way bearing is the only solution needed for 99% of us....until I see evidence to the contrary.

EDIT: I actually got my bearing from Heli-Direct...


Jason Greenwood

www.3dheli.co.nz

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09-13-2007 01:37 AM  10 years agoPost 115
Ace Dude

rrProfessor

USA

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It's way to early to tell if a simple bearing replacement is going to be the long term solution.

  

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09-13-2007 02:08 AM  10 years agoPost 116
702nitro

rrKey Veteran

Las Vegas, NV

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Update: Still going strong

I ordered one of these one way bearings form ebay. Thing is when it came it looked nothing like the picture on ebay, it still had a rubbish plastic race
Correct, the actual ebay HF1216 one-way bearing sold by VXB isn't the same pictured in the listing. You actually get the ABEC one-way from Helidirect which is likt $3.80

FLIGHT REPORT

-Flying Style: 3d and little bit of hard 3d
-Flights: 8 gallons
-One way still smooth like when first installed. No notchiness. No play on main gear. Tracks nicely

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09-13-2007 02:12 AM  10 years agoPost 117
hootowl

rrProfessor

Garnet Valley, Pa.

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Looking at the LukeRC assy, think about it. Buy the bearing, make the hub, add the center sleeve. How much do you think that should sell for? The bearing alone is probably $20 or more.

Align sell it's kit for $20. You get what you pay for. It also locks up... ask the frequent flyers at your field. Talk to the pros. I've been around many this summer. Aligns fix is only a little better.

I just put the Align upgrade kit in yesterday. As soon as I get a chance this LukeRC is going in.

Wolves don't lose sleep over the opinions of sheep

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09-13-2007 02:22 AM  10 years agoPost 118
hootowl

rrProfessor

Garnet Valley, Pa.

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BTW Vario uses a similar design as the LukeRC hub/bearing

Price... $150

Wolves don't lose sleep over the opinions of sheep

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09-13-2007 02:27 AM  10 years agoPost 119
Ace Dude

rrProfessor

USA

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So should we start placing bets now how long it will be before ALIGN copies LukeRC's work?

  

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09-13-2007 02:35 AM  10 years agoPost 120
tchavei

rrProfessor

Portugal

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Speaking of vario... I have a friend with a vario bell 222 and his one way locks up from time to time... $150 you say? Hum...

Tony


--------------------
"Perfection and patience usually walk side by side..."

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HelicopterAlignOther › Better looking one way bearing.... Got one
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