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HelicopterAlignOther › Better looking one way bearing.... Got one
09-12-2007 09:09 AM  10 years agoPost 81
Magnazan

rrVeteran

Auckland - New Zealand

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I don't think thats fully caused by your one way. Hell mines locked up and i don't have the same issue as you (Note apart from the pipe we have EXACTLY the same setup). Could be a faulty sensor maybe or an issue with the multigov itself. You could try your spare multigov to eliminate it from the equation.

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09-12-2007 10:33 AM  10 years agoPost 82
jadams

rrKey Veteran

East coast USA

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Gee once again Align has released a "fix" for the defective part and want $19.99 for it. Pisses me off when you have to pay for defective parts. They should make this right with the people that bought kits. kinda hard to fly a heli with no fan or one way.

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09-12-2007 10:35 AM  10 years agoPost 83
hootowl

rrProfessor

Garnet Valley, Pa.

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I too agree the issue most likely is the sleeve. These cheaper needle clutches are very sensitive to that inner dia they are grabbing onto.

The FC-12 that locked on me yesterday left marks on the sleeve.

I have two sleeves.. both measure .4722" and both have had bearings lock on them.

Wolves don't lose sleep over the opinions of sheep

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09-12-2007 12:07 PM  10 years agoPost 84
tchavei

rrProfessor

Portugal

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Hootowl: can you be more accurate please? I mean .4722" is 12mm but the sleeves we have been seeing here are either 11.98mm or 12.02mm... which one is it?

Mines are all 12.02... waiting for my first lookup...

Tony


--------------------
"Perfection and patience usually walk side by side..."

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09-12-2007 12:18 PM  10 years agoPost 85
hootowl

rrProfessor

Garnet Valley, Pa.

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Sorry,

My measurement .4722" was in inches which equates to 11.99388 mm

Looks like .4732" (12.02mm) would help. I have three sleeves, two new ones with the ALIGN markings, none as big as yours.

I think they may need to be harder judging by the grooves made by the one way.

This is classic Align junk.

Wolves don't lose sleep over the opinions of sheep

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09-12-2007 12:42 PM  10 years agoPost 86
tchavei

rrProfessor

Portugal

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The 60139T sleeve is 12.02 versus the old 600018T which is only 11.98mm

The funny thing is my original kit I bought like 3-4 months ago came with the 12.02mm sleeve and only like a month ago Align anounced the new improved sleeve 139T with 12.02mm (comes also in the new upgrade 60064 set)

Tony


--------------------
"Perfection and patience usually walk side by side..."

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09-12-2007 12:47 PM  10 years agoPost 87
hootowl

rrProfessor

Garnet Valley, Pa.

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The sleeve pictured came out of a package marked 60139T and has the ALIGN marking.

Looks like ALIGN can't get them right.

No problem... I'm going with the LukeRC hub assy. Should be here any day.

Wolves don't lose sleep over the opinions of sheep

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09-12-2007 01:28 PM  10 years agoPost 88
helibaba

rrNovice

Connecticut

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My brand new pro kit came with the 12.02 mm sleeves and the INA HF12 Drawn Cup Roller Clutch (one way bearing). This is the same bearing and sleeve combo that is included in the Align HN6064 upgrade assembly.

Mine started locking up after 8 flights and every flight there after. It appears that initial lockup causes a distortion of the phenolic cage which makes the subsequent lockups more probable.

Albert G.

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09-12-2007 01:46 PM  10 years agoPost 89
tchavei

rrProfessor

Portugal

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Like I mentioned before, the INA included in the kits is NOT the same as the ones you can buy locally (at least here in europe). I don't know why they are different, but they sure are. The local one has dark carbon type finish color and is smooth as silk. It looks and feels better than my VXB ones... go figure...

Tony


--------------------
"Perfection and patience usually walk side by side..."

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09-12-2007 02:25 PM  10 years agoPost 90
Shawn Behrens

rrApprentice

DEEP IN THE BOG

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I too think the issue is with the sleeve. I think the issue is more related to the hardness of the metal used and not the .02-.04mm change in diameter. Just a guess. On a side note I have only had a handful (maybe 5) lock ups in nearly 10 gallons, but a friend of mine gets locked every flight?
shawn

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09-12-2007 03:08 PM  10 years agoPost 91
tchavei

rrProfessor

Portugal

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Ok, so what material do you recommend for the sleeve? I have a friend with a lathe and maybe we can make something...

Tony


--------------------
"Perfection and patience usually walk side by side..."

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09-12-2007 03:12 PM  10 years agoPost 92
Havoc

rrElite Veteran

Ky.

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I don't own a 600 so I can't say for sure this would work but Id modify the hirobo sleeve to work with the align. You know it holds up on a 50 with the same style bearing. Its ground and hardened.

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09-12-2007 03:45 PM  10 years agoPost 93
tchavei

rrProfessor

Portugal

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modify the hirobo sleeve to work with the align
Interesting... anybody knows the dimensions of the hirobo sleeve? I'm not at home so I can't check

Tony


--------------------
"Perfection and patience usually walk side by side..."

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09-12-2007 03:46 PM  10 years agoPost 94
Ace Dude

rrProfessor

USA

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Wow, five months on the market and ALIGN still can't fix this issue.

Of course, why should they? Folks just keep buying them and all these problems don't seem to impact their bottom line.

  

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09-12-2007 04:21 PM  10 years agoPost 95
hootowl

rrProfessor

Garnet Valley, Pa.

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For long fatigue life, the shaft raceway, must have a hardness
equivalent to 58 HRC (ref, ASTM E-18), and ground to the recommended
diameter shown in the tables of dimensions. It may be through
hardened, or it may be case hardened, with an effective case depth of
0.030 inch (0.8 mm) (Effective case depth is defined as the distance
from the surface inward to the equivalent of 50 HRC hardness level after
grinding.)
Taper within the length of the raceway should not exceed 0.0003
inch (0.008 mm), or one-half the diameter tolerance, whichever is
smaller. The radial deviation from true circular form of the raceway
should not exceed .0001 inch (0.0025 mm) for diameters up to and
including 1 inch (25.4 mm). For raceways greater than 1.0 inch or 25mm
the allowable radial deviation may be greater than .0001 inch
(0.0025 mm) by a factor of raceway diameter (in inches) divided by 1.0
or a factor of raceway diameter (in mm) divided by 25.4. Surface finish
on the raceway should not exceed 16 microinches a.a. (arithmetic
average) or 0.4 mm (on the Ra scale). Deviations will reduce the load
capacity and fatigue life of the shaft.
According to the Torrington chart I have The Torrington FC-12 needs a 12,000 11,989mm dia shaft which my sleeve fell into.

Torrington also says this....
When applying these clutches, it is important that separate bearings
be used adjacent to the clutches to carry radial loads and assure
concentricity between the shaft and the housing.
The basic mechanical design of the main gear, hub and shaft calls for a different type of oneway bearing/hub design. I think ALIGN stuck it to us.... they knew this was a bad design. The specs are written by the clutch manufacturers and ALIGN ignored them.

Wolves don't lose sleep over the opinions of sheep

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09-12-2007 04:42 PM  10 years agoPost 96
tchavei

rrProfessor

Portugal

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well, its an easy fix then... stop using the 9.96mm mainshaft, get a 9,98mm one (raptor comes to mind), tighten the main bearing blocks real tight to assure perfect alignment and no shifting during flights and the bearing should hold up well

Tony


--------------------
"Perfection and patience usually walk side by side..."

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09-12-2007 05:31 PM  10 years agoPost 97
Ace Dude

rrProfessor

USA

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The basic mechanical design of the main gear, hub and shaft calls for a different type of oneway bearing/hub design. I think ALIGN stuck it to us.... they knew this was a bad design. The specs are written by the clutch manufacturers and ALIGN ignored them.
Two things come to mind:

1) The proper design would be much more expensive to design and manufactuer.

2) I seriously doubt ALIGN even consulted bearing manufacturers design specifications.

Like all manufacturers, ALIGN is in business to make a profit.

  

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09-12-2007 05:58 PM  10 years agoPost 98
hootowl

rrProfessor

Garnet Valley, Pa.

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well, its an easy fix then... stop using the 9.96mm mainshaft, get a 9,98mm one (raptor comes to mind), tighten the main bearing blocks real tight to assure perfect alignment and no shifting during flights and the bearing should hold up well
No the problem is the main gear is unsupported. Who knows what forces are being applied to it when you nail pitch or on hard 3D maneuvers. Notice it locks up after hard 3D? With frame flex, wobbly gears, you cannot be sure the main gear is being spun perfectly flat when loaded and worked.

I would bet if they had a harder sleeve it would hold up reasonably longer.

Wolves don't lose sleep over the opinions of sheep

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09-12-2007 06:03 PM  10 years agoPost 99
GScott

rrElite Veteran

Lewis Center, OH

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Quote:

"1) The proper design would be much more expensive to design and manufactuer."

The proper design is not much more expensive. The Knight 3D uses a oneway supported by 2 additional bearings and it doesn't lock up. It's been awhile since I had my Sceadu but I believe it also uses a similar design. I don't believe the Raptor supports the oneway and it has also had oneway lockup issues.

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09-12-2007 06:24 PM  10 years agoPost 100
Ace Dude

rrProfessor

USA

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The proper design is not much more expensive. The Knight 3D uses a oneway supported by 2 additional bearings and it doesn't lock up. It's been awhile since I had my Sceadu but I believe it also uses a similar design. I don't believe the Raptor supports the oneway and it has also had oneway lockup issues.
Most other helis don't lockup either. In fact, I've never owned a heli that had this problem, until now.

If this problem didn't show up until the thousands of parts were already manufactured then yes, it would be expensive to start over.

  

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HelicopterAlignOther › Better looking one way bearing.... Got one
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