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HelicopterOff Topics › Impeach Em Now, or Kiss Your America, Goodbye.
08-08-2007 07:12 AM  10 years agoPost 501
helo_chris

rrVeteran

goodlettsville, tn

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So if an organization trying to help people has a message thats not ok, but millions of my dollars being spent to fund abortion and special rights that most of this country do not support is ok I guess you think the government can do it better.

The FCC morality laws you speak of have been on the books for years. That isnt the "fuhrer" imposing his views on anyone. And though you might want your kids to see nipples on TV I do now want mine to, anymore than I want them to see it walking down the street. They are the public airwaves after all, which demands a level of common decency. Even though you might not be a decent person.

Well here is the entire letter, which was written in response to a letter from the Danbury Baptists expressing their concern over the Congregationalists in Conn. They were asking in essence for Jefferson and the Federal govt to step in, which he refused. His idea of wall of separation was that the federal govt could not legislate religion, not that it must be completely removed. This is evidenced by his attendance of worship services in the House of Reps. Also, It was not uncommon in that day for states to have "official" religions, which was the case in Conn. Though he thought it unwise, as due most people, his stance was from the view of the federal govt that it was the states issue to deal with.
To messers. Nehemiah Dodge, Ephraim Robbins, & Stephen S. Nelson, a committee of the Danbury Baptist association in the state of Connecticut.

Gentlemen

The affectionate sentiments of esteem and approbation which you are so good as to express towards me, on behalf of the Danbury Baptist association, give me the highest satisfaction. my duties dictate a faithful and zealous pursuit of the interests of my constituents, & in proportion as they are persuaded of my fidelity to those duties, the discharge of them becomes more and more pleasing.

Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church & State. Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties.

I reciprocate your kind prayers for the protection & blessing of the common father and creator of man, and tender you for yourselves & your religious association, assurances of my high respect & esteem.
Here is a link to the above as well as some background information on the political climate of the times. Note especially the part about how the Federalists attacked Jefferson for being "godless." Religion being used for political gain or as liability is not something that has just happened, only in your uninformed mind.
http://www.loc.gov/loc/lcib/9806/danbury.html

And here is a link to the letter Jefferson received from the Danbury Baptists.
http://www.gainesvillehumanists.org/baptist.htm
Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that man claim the tribute of patriotism, who should labor to subvert these great pillars of human happiness, these firmest props of the duties of men and citizens. The mere politician, equally with the pious man, ought to respect and to cherish them. A volume could not trace all their connections with private and public felicity. Let it simply be asked: Where is the security for property, for reputation, for life, if the sense of religious obligation desert the oaths which are the instruments of investigation in courts of justice ? And let us with caution indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion. Whatever may be conceded to the influence of refined education on minds of peculiar structure, reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle.
George Washington's Farewell Address, 1796
http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/washing.htm

"There is a fine line between cutting edge and bleeding edge.."

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08-08-2007 07:12 AM  10 years agoPost 502
LouInSD

rrVeteran

San Diego CA USA

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When you heat sand to a boil it turns into glass, dont we have a glass shortage here in the states? I think so and I know the perfect place to make billions of tons of glass.....
Goodlettsville TN?

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08-08-2007 07:14 AM  10 years agoPost 503
helo_chris

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goodlettsville, tn

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Certainly not San Diego, only thing there is a cesspool.

"There is a fine line between cutting edge and bleeding edge.."

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08-08-2007 07:49 AM  10 years agoPost 504
LouInSD

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San Diego CA USA

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Relax, it was a joke. San Diego adds 40,000 new residents every year (apparently cesspools are popular?)

In regards to the Danbury letter, I'm not sure why you think that website supports your point. Sure Jefferson may have been trying to offend the Federalists with such strong language but does that mean he didn't believe it? Many of the great political thinkers throughout time believed that the only way to preserve a republic was to make sure that there was a separation of church and state.

********************************************

From Wikipedia...

As applied in the United States, the idea of separating the church and state is often credited to the writings of the British philosopher John Locke, which deeply influenced the drafting of the United States Constitution.[9] According to his principle of the social contract, Locke had argued that the government lacked authority in the realm of individual conscience, as this was something rational people could not cede to the government for it or others to control. For Locke, this created a natural right in the liberty of conscience, which he argued must therefore remain inviolable by any government authority. These views on religious tolerance and the importance of individual conscience, along with Locke's social contract, became influential in the American colonies.[10]

Under the United States Constitution, the treatment of religion by the government is broken into two clauses: the establishment clause and the free exercise clause. While both are discussed in the context of the separation of church and state, it is more often discussed in regard to whether certain state actions would amount to an impermissible government establishment of religion.

******************************************************

History shows that democracies would sooner or later fall into the hands of a tyrant if that wall of separation was not maintained. The founders themselves saw it happening with the Church Of England. Thus they had strong feelings about that subject. The fact that he toned down his language to avoid further fueling the fire is not a big deal. It just goes to show that religious extremists are idiots and a bitch to deal with.

The difference between that and what this current idiot is doing is major. It was always okay to mention God in a general sense but it has always been considered verboten to mention specifically what religion you practice or make reference to a specific religion. (If you are in office) Bush mentions "Jesus Christ" all the time. He's a complete moron and a disgrace to the office.
The FCC morality laws you speak of have been on the books for years. That isnt the "fuhrer" imposing his views on anyone.
Bush hired an extremist "born again" christian because he wants HIS views imposed on all of us. As a matter of fact, a large percentage of bushies appointments and hires have zero experience in government or in the positions they were hired/appointed for. Their only acheivement was having gone to a bogus fundamentalist "christian" college like Oral Roberts University.

I think we've all seen what an utter failure they have been at governing.

These people are a complete joke...

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08-08-2007 02:02 PM  10 years agoPost 505
1stPlace

rrApprentice

Ohio USA

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For the last 8 years+ you Cons have been accusing Dems of being "godless" because we respect (and actually understand) the intentions of the founders in regards to the church/state issue.
That is total BS. No one accused Dems of being godless. Nor, do you understand our founding fathers intents
Dems have only recently started talking about their religious beliefs because Repubs have gotten pandering to the religious right down to a science. It was always considered bad form in this country to exploit religious people or try to appeal to them by pandering to them or pretending to be one of them.
So, if you can't beat them, join them? Since when do two wrongs make a right? Can you say hypocrit?
I say we cut them off. Let's practice some "personal responsibility" and allow them to die on the vine. If you red states cant carry your own weight, we should let you all rot.
What were you saying about conservatives being childish and selfish

Face it Lou, You are a faciast and a hypocrit. Your just too brainwashed to see it. with three generations of indoctrination in your family, I'm not surprised.

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08-08-2007 04:37 PM  10 years agoPost 506
Pistol PeterrProfessor - Seffner, FL - My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

this nations needs an enema and only the united "american" voters can administer it...plain and simple.

you all may continue with the segregation ritual

~~Enjoying the hobby one flight at a time~~

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08-08-2007 07:34 PM  10 years agoPost 507
LouInSD

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San Diego CA USA

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1st place, you're a political infant.

It's a shame you don't have the tools to interpret the world around you...

Take a poli sci 101 class, then come back. It will save you a lot of embarrassment...

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08-08-2007 08:25 PM  10 years agoPost 508
1stPlace

rrApprentice

Ohio USA

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Take a poli sci 101 class, then come back. It will save you a lot of embarrassment...
Too late... In college, I took intro to poli sci, American Poli, Humanities in Western Tradition, Comparative Poli, and finally International Poli... You just can't handle a good debate

You know a political opponent is defeated when they start calling names and refuse to proove their claims

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08-08-2007 08:29 PM  10 years agoPost 509
helo_chris

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goodlettsville, tn

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Well, dont you feel like the liberal idiot that you are.

"There is a fine line between cutting edge and bleeding edge.."

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08-09-2007 04:17 AM  10 years agoPost 510
flipped2left

rrKey Veteran

indianapolis,in.

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Ok this may be a tad late... but.... osama has been pulled out of the grave again with a grainy video most likely made by the powers that be, to strike fear into us once again, yeh right!! osama has been dead since 2001,i mean with all this computer wizardry i could put bush and rice in a compromising position, and you don't think for a moment that our own govt. isn't doing the same thing?, c'mon guy's you know they have motives and they are not good for any of us.
get off those goddamned video games and go out side and look at your own neighborhood, bet you won't like what you see, and it's all thanks to our guvment!!

Smile! people will wonder what you're up to!!

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08-09-2007 02:19 PM  10 years agoPost 511
R Hudson

rrKey Veteran

Denver, CO

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I've not been a big fan of my "hood" for some time now.

Very disturbing.

It's time to start taking more action than just b*tching.

I just need to decide on a course of action.

Signature

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08-09-2007 03:34 PM  10 years agoPost 512
jimco

rrApprentice

east texas

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Lets all give Homeland Security a big hand. CLAP, CLAP, CLAP. Ain't they doing a good job?, Just think about it. Not a Terrorist Attack , in the US, since 9/11.
Can't stop over 500.000 illegals crossing the border every year. But, they are really good on weeding out all those terrorist.
Seems to me, that they are really doing a bang up job. They seem to know about when the next attack is going to happen., They know the names of the cities that the attacks will take place in, and the method of attack.
I guess tricky Dick, just has not made up his mind, as to when to pull the trigger.
But, it is supposed to happen in the month of August, or so they warned. Seems they were just waiting for all the congressmen to get to safety, on vacation, then none of the Big Dogs have a chance of getting injured.
Think about it.

Could it be, that our Men in Black, control the TERRORIST AGENDA.???

Honey, where's the check book, it's Fedex again

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08-09-2007 04:05 PM  10 years agoPost 513
1stPlace

rrApprentice

Ohio USA

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go out side and look at your own neighborhood, bet you won't like what you see, and it's all thanks to our guvment!!
I guess I'm lucky. I live on a residential airpark. Ooohhhh... I just heard a Cessna 337 take off. I felt the vibrations in my chest as she went past my shop, nearly gets me hard LOL! My neighbors are mostly really nice people too. Geez... I love it here
Could it be, that our Men in Black, control the TERRORIST AGENDA.???
Ya know Jimco... I'm beginning to believe that may be true

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08-09-2007 04:14 PM  10 years agoPost 514
jimco

rrApprentice

east texas

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Yep, just to many strange deals going on in this administration. Doesn't take a CT, to finally figure out, that something is really strange with this Presidency.
Why has this supposed "War on Terror" not made a dent? That is , in anything except the treasury. I would love to see the bank accounts of our glorious leaders. Wonder if they hold any stock , in military contractors??? Think old Dick Cheney has made a buck from this mess, that seems to not have an end in sight. ????

Honey, where's the check book, it's Fedex again

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08-09-2007 04:32 PM  10 years agoPost 515
1stPlace

rrApprentice

Ohio USA

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Think old Dick Cheney has made a buck from this mess, that seems to not have an end in sight. ????
Let's not forget about Soros the socialist buying 2 million shares of Halliburton at a price tag of $62 million, only 2% of his net worth... Why would he buy into a company that he rallied against so hard?

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08-09-2007 04:39 PM  10 years agoPost 516
jimco

rrApprentice

east texas

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Kinda wonder, did he have some insider info. Lots of bucks to be putting into a potential loser. huh???
Probably did it, based of Haliburtons, contract to build prisons, in the US. I think KBR is doing the work.?
Something to think about: The greatest county on the face of the earth, has the largest portion of its inhabitants in prison, 1 in 132 residents.
Something wrong with this program.
Seems like we are spending more on prisons, than on infrastructure. I guess is you don.t use the infrastructure, due to everyone being in prison, then you can justify the expense of the prisons.
Look at all the free labor.

Honey, where's the check book, it's Fedex again

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08-09-2007 06:43 PM  10 years agoPost 517
helo_chris

rrVeteran

goodlettsville, tn

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Let's not forget about Soros the socialist buying 2 million shares of Halliburton at a price tag of $62 million,
All those pansy a** libtards are hypocrites. The whole time Michael Moore was running his fat mouth about the evil empire he was holding shares of GE and Haliburton as well as other defense contractors and energy giants. And Miss Nancy "people dont need guns" Pelosi has a concealed carry permit in a state where its nearly impossible to get one.

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/art.../3/150518.shtml

"There is a fine line between cutting edge and bleeding edge.."

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08-10-2007 02:02 AM  10 years agoPost 518
jimco

rrApprentice

east texas

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Imagine that Chris: Two faced people in government and business. Never ends , does it. ???

Honey, where's the check book, it's Fedex again

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08-10-2007 02:40 AM  10 years agoPost 519
1stPlace

rrApprentice

Ohio USA

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Pelosi has a concealed carry permit in a state where its nearly impossible to get one.
Chris, I seem to remember hearing that somewhere before. But, I googled it and came back with nothing. It may be just a rumor?
Two faced people in government and business. Never ends , does it. ???
Careful... They may be here too!

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08-10-2007 03:18 AM  10 years agoPost 520
jimco

rrApprentice

east texas

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Put the entire congress and senate walking this year,. and change will take place. Put someone in office that you might be able to trust. They don't work out, put em out next time. I think its really time for a 3rd party to really get this mess under control. What we have is not working.

Honey, where's the check book, it's Fedex again

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