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HelicopterAerial Photography and Video › Yet another Slow Stick For AP Thread
03-21-2009 08:35 PM  8 years agoPost 1461
Guido44

rrApprentice

Near Chicago,​Illinois

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I'm sorry Richard, you misunderstood what I'm asking for.

I need a 1 meter piece for my landing gear, not for a control surface.

Instead on cutting off the rod at the top of the mount, I want to bend it over to the other side and keep the gear for both wheels as 1 continuous piece.

I'm hoping that will keep the CF tube from twisting and the gear from "bowing out" too much.

dan

http://www.danfarinastudios.com/

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03-21-2009 09:51 PM  8 years agoPost 1462
eyeinsky

rrVeteran

Fall River, Nova​Scotia, Canada

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Sorry Dan

I did misunderstand you as well When you went with 80" wing I assumed that you needed to extend you control wires. There for I assumed that you had single servo set up on the ailerons.

Cheers Jerry

Hard job competing with gravity.

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03-22-2009 07:27 AM  8 years agoPost 1463
talk the torque

rrApprentice

SA

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Dan I really think that will be to heavy. When I suggested that you could put some outward angle on your under cart I also said check if your frame will handle it. If it cant then rather just keep them straight down. Almost like to seperate nosewheel legs on each boom. I also think you should have those legs going down at the front of plane to prevent it from nosing over easily. Where your wheels were before but with straight down legs rather than angling forward as you had it (By saying your wheels I mean the wheel part of it and not where the leg was attached to the boom)

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03-22-2009 02:53 PM  8 years agoPost 1464
RichardVRFlyer

rrNovice

Sydney,Australia

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Dan,
I really think that "talk the torque" is right.. to run the rod continues will add a lot of weight.. I guess it is back to the drawing board.

Well I finished the standard SS today.. and just like a year ago after the first maiden crash.. the result were similar .. only this time I tried in the backyard..
I just wanted to check the glide .. hit the throttle and was airborne in 4 feet to about 6 feet... pulling to the left with no effect from opposite rudder input. kill power to glide and it just turned into a javelin there goes another prop .
CG is at about 4.5 " battery 11.1v 2400 mAh 128 gms in under the wing to give me the CG.. the eflite 480 1020 kv is only running a 10X4.7 prop. No extra weight at this stage.
climbed without any elevator input at all.
I ma going down to the park Monday morning to give it another go .. this time I will get much more height.. just hope it does not do the over loop and back to earth.. gravity you goto love
I have build all sort of plane for gas power -Ele - ducted fan - Slope - gliders powered and non-powered, and never had the issues I have had with this SS..
This one must just be a pig..!!!
it is the straight SS build out of the box..
I have tonight work on the lateral balance. the CG still at 4.5".. 100mm from LE in some quotes and reviews.=4" yet most of you guys are running at 5" from LE...
I have also noticed while trying to work out WHY this plane is behaving like this that it has about 2 deg of up incidence.. I usually always work on 0 deg incidence.. has anybody lifted the TE of the wing bracket to reduce the incidents down or not bothered?
I have a fair bi of tape around the center if the LE placement and also the TE.. so the height of each should not effect it.
The one time I had it up last year before the nose dive into the concrete it was all over the shop .. bobbing and bumping....
Maybe I need to add some ballast to increase the wing loading ?
there is No down and right thrust compensation... just connected to a metal stick mount.
I have another SS only this time I will not use the 12 deg dihedral suggested.
Run an 8 channel RX.. throttle .. flapertons, Elevator , Rudder.. the other 3 channels left X2 will be for the pan and tilt.. the other for the camera trigger servo. That it if I ever get the thing to fly...Any suggestion.. maybe I not seeing something that is really simple...
It is really beginning to get under my skin... already working on another AP plane 80" for now may be 100" span cord of 13.5 inches using a Eflite BL32 should be finished is a few months... but I really don't want a SS to beat me
I have checked the boom and and looks OK
Richard...
I check to see if there is any advise.. be out flying in about 8-9 hours off to bed..

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03-22-2009 11:55 PM  8 years agoPost 1465
Guido44

rrApprentice

Near Chicago,​Illinois

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Thanks for the replies guys. I'll go back and reread them later.

I was at the field for several hours today. Windy. Cross wind no less. I cracked the tail on my Mustang on take off. No big deal, I need to recover the entire plane anyway. (She was my first, and it's a little worse for ware

I finally put the SS up for test flight. The wings FLUTTERED pretty badly, so I brought it down for a bad nose in landing. I'm still cutting the throttle down too much. It losses altitude quickly.
Sorry no video to show.

So here's a play by play:
"Good take off, climbs just fine, after about 2 seconds in the air wing flutter, cut back the throttle too far, tried to turn back to the field, crash". It all happened pretty fast so...

The good news is that I think I finally have the CG correct.

I need more support with the CF tubes under the wing. Hopefully, after that, she fly well.(enough)

EDIT: I was asking a few of the guys at my club field where to buy motors, lipos, etc.
I just ordered this motor from BP Hobbies

Prices are pretty darn good. With shipping it was $42.50(U.S.).
It draws 39 amps, & I've got the 40 amp S.C. from e-Flight, so I hope they'll work together.

dan

http://www.danfarinastudios.com/

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03-23-2009 06:11 AM  8 years agoPost 1466
RichardVRFlyer

rrNovice

Sydney,Australia

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Guido44/Dan..

Looks like it will do the job..it is going to be much better that the than the E-flite 480... just how long it will last is another thing.. but as with the slow stick you don't need a lot to keep it up there it's a matter of getting her up..
as for the props .. a general rule of thumb : the 9 x 6 E they suggest.. you can substitute these.. if you go up in length,you down in pitch e.g: a 9X6 = 10X5 or (11X4.7 this will draw a little more amps but not worth worrying about..)
so for this motor is might pay to use a 10X5 or even 10X6... it's really a matter of testing.. to see which one suite .. but I would go the length and less pitch.. pulls less amps.
I had a park flier and used a 10X5 on a e-flite 380 it flew but not well.. I put a big chip in the prop and had nothing but a 9X6 in my goodie bag.. and X2 full charges batteries and the day was great.. wasn't going to waste it.. so I thought any prop will do.
On goes the 9X6 and it went like a rocket .. from that day on I only used 9X6 on that plane.. completely transformed it.. So really try a few different props until you get what you are looking for.
Use the rule up X1 in size down X1 in pitch and of course the reverse.. applies and this goes for any prop.

On another note:
I have to thank you for you last post re:
The wings FLUTTERED pretty badly
Off to the park this morning... put the CG at 100cm from LE 4" well a bit over, about 4" and a bit " not much anyway..
I thought what the hell ... maxed out the elevator and rudder throws.. used Aileron to Rudder mix 80% switchable on /off from TX just in case.
Stock build with about 2" of Boom cut off from the last flight a year ago in a nose landing... lateral balanced her.. ran the aileron at 70% of throw... could go to max now...
A bit of a wind picked up not much about 2-3 kts.. would have preferred dead calm for the trim on maiden ..
Gassed it up the cricket pitch and sky ward In about 4 feet at 45 deg .. Aileron and TE Flutter real bad ... I remember your posting (Dan) just backed off the throttle and continued a little longer and then leveled off... What a hand full.. getting tossed all over the place.. switched on the Aileron--> rudder mix and control was regained... it is much more responsive to the Rudder than ailerons.. after about 10 minutes at 1/2 throttle and a little more trimming I managed to get it to fly. landed and took off several times until a further 10 minutes had passed by which time I was beginning to notice a lack of power... and these puppies like to have positive throttle at least the prop turning so as not to act as a break and it landed..
So it needs a few more mods.. like the aileron push rods solid one piece only.. I am using the style that has a 2cm bend for adjusting like some park fliers have, by bending the "V" to change the trim.. this was not good and the wing flutter made the whole thing worse. But any flight you have to come home to just charge up batteries is a good one..
Cheers and Thanks again for the above comments on flutter.you saved my butt
Edit: BTW the prop was is a APC 10X4.7 slowflyer on the E-flite 480 1020 Kv and 11.1 v 2400mAh lipo (146 gms) .. I'll put a APC 11X6 next time.. also with the motor mount being alloy I bent it down.~1 deg down thrust.
cheers
Richard

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03-23-2009 04:14 PM  8 years agoPost 1467
Guido44

rrApprentice

Near Chicago,​Illinois

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Looks like your making progress Richard. I am definitely going to try the aileron rudder mix. I think that's a good solution for more response and overall control.

My flying club has been a great source for me from the very beginning. I can honestly say that I would not have stayed in this hobby without their help. They really had a good laugh making fun of my SS and the "fluttering" wing tips. All in good fun though.

After yesterdays test flight, I have a few corrections to make. I didn't use FOAM SAFE glue on the CF rods on the bottom of the wings. One side came loose. Not sure if it was after the CRASH, or during flight but .... I have to peel them off and re glue them. I was told to use foam safe glue AND accelerator to make it a much faster process. Being careful of course.

I'm going to straighten out my landing gear as well. That is, not flaring out to the sides. My Cf tubes in the front were damaged too.

My new motor should be here in a few days, the weather stinks here anyway. I hope to be ready by the weekend.

dan

http://www.danfarinastudios.com/

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03-24-2009 12:19 AM  8 years agoPost 1468
RichardVRFlyer

rrNovice

Sydney,Australia

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Dan,
Shame about the repairs , but in a way it is a good thing gives you a chance to make some needed mods..

Just a few tips: use them or not..
As for CA either foam safe or normal.. and kicker. " Forget it "
CA on anything but balsa is a waste of time... the joins you make with CA over time become dry and brittle and crack.. in short "Fail" is might be 6 months - 12 months. If you are using CA on the CF tubing it will fail and is not the best option..
I use epoxy and "Glass Balloon" you can get a packet of these balloon for a fiber glass supplier ..
I use approx equal parts of this powder " Glass Balloon " to the epoxy but use 24hr epoxy.. as this acts as an accelerator to the epoxy.. if you were to use it on 5 minute epoxy work really quick and small amounts.. just enough for say X2 joints... this is all you need.. the balloon act as a filler , the epoxy will go white but be half the weight of stock epoxy. For lapping joints I use cotton thread .. from a fishing shop that you use o put the runner on the fishing rods. then smear the thin coat of epoxy over the join.
You can even use more of the balloons but it will thicken the mix and not spread as well.. trial and error.. weight VS spread.
BTW this goes for any join you want to make and make strong and light.
as for foam wing..I use this method.. but thin.. there is a certain amount of heat from the mix.. with a foam to foam join..
A crack in the SS wing I use a white glue (PVA) one here call "MDF made by Bostik".. you have over there a a glue which is good for all foam and depron called "Sumo glue" and other are a "UHU type glues for foam.... I use Gorilla glue on EPP..
Carbon ...Epoxy.. CA glue very often at all..

AS for the aileron --> rudder mix ... I noticed that the SS responded to the rudder much better than the Ailerions (Stock Cutout) but they still worked...
Don't over mix or at least have it switchable on and off until you get a happy medium...
To work out a good mix can take a few flights ... with height
1)Use the rudder only and watch response to your control movement.. try and remember your thumb positions
2) use ailerons only and watch the effect and again note thumb positions.
3) do both and see if you can fly using both at varying position with the main control on the Rudder for now...
Remember it is a Ailer---> Rudder mix.. I started with 70% of aileron throw... and mixed 60% rudder to start..the rudder was set at 100% throw.. but the 60% is of the aileron throw which I set at 70%...
Confused ??? ..
That is why it is a good Idea to do the above steps. to get the plane to fly with either.A/R... now when you mix you can get your turns to be flat ... It is totally up to your style of flying you like..
If you find that you are in putting even more rudder to get the result you want than dial in more .. I am at A-R @ 80% but when I take my Aileron throw up from 70% to 90% ... I will take back the rudder to 70% and test it.. always leave extra travel over your mix Just in case you get into trouble.. then have it on a switch... to get back full travel controls (No Mix)... ALL of my 2meter and up scale gliders I use this style of mix.. and my light thermal ones as well.
Cheers
Richard.

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03-24-2009 12:40 AM  8 years agoPost 1469
Envision

rrVeteran

MI

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Wow, reading that hurt my head, I'll just use the AP2k and the rudder.

Troy

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03-24-2009 02:14 AM  8 years agoPost 1470
RichardVRFlyer

rrNovice

Sydney,Australia

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Troy,

is "AP2k" the up market of the FMA CDP4 ? I got one just haven't put it on yet...

Richard
PS: Sorry about the headache

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03-24-2009 02:56 AM  8 years agoPost 1471
Envision

rrVeteran

MI

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I was kidding Richard, AP2000i is a more advanced stabilizer that uses the FMA co-pilot sensor, made for helis and can mix ccpm heli's with a standard radio. Very programmable. I use the gain on the left slider of a XP9303.

I see there is a new FMA product coming out that is supposed to be better.

Troy

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03-24-2009 05:17 AM  8 years agoPost 1472
RichardVRFlyer

rrNovice

Sydney,Australia

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Troy,
I have been looking at that one:
Co Pilot II Systems -- 2 or 3 Axis, 4 Channel, IR Flight Stabilization Systems for use with your existing radio
http://www.fmadirect.com/products.htm?cat=75&nid=6

Starts at $189.95US (base system) then--->199.95US this one has the "Vertical Sensor" and then ----> $209.95US .. this has all in the combo #2 plus the USB lead.
I think the combo #2 would be the one if I got one..I have the the USB lead already but it's only $10.00 more.
I need to find out a bit more.. there will be some talk about it on RCGroups soon.. there is some mention already but I haven't had the time to read it all.
So in the meantime I stick with the CDP4.

Had a buzz around the park this morning.. did a little more trimming.. still blows around in any breeze.. need to increase the wing loading
I felt like I was out walking the dog... it can fly that slow I was walking across the park back to the van as the battery was on its way out with the plane beside me.. all I need was a lead of course I was walking straight into a breeze that came up, that helped

Richard

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03-24-2009 01:23 PM  8 years agoPost 1473
Guido44

rrApprentice

Near Chicago,​Illinois

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Richard,

I don't know anything about these systems, but somewhere, some one posted this device. I bookmarked it, if and when I'm ready to buy it.

http://www.fmadirect.com/Detail.htm...1489§ion=20

It's only $69.99 (U.S.)

dan

http://www.danfarinastudios.com/

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03-24-2009 03:29 PM  8 years agoPost 1474
RichardVRFlyer

rrNovice

Sydney,Australia

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Dan,
I have one of those.. got it about 2 weeks ago. I haven't used it yet.. I have installed it to see how it work on my 2.6m Scale Glider (Discus)

I use that mix of the Ailerons ----> rudder but it wont work if you put it into the X2 aileron connection on the RX... the mixing signal comes from the TX direct.. and the rudder is called a slave but in not in the true meaning of the word.. even though the aileron gets the signal from The TX it also gets the signal for the mix in this case the rudder...
so it is a true X2 axis unit.. so you can only have either a "Y" connector on your ailerons or just connect to the rudder and elevator.. this is really for this the best method. I know that Troy is using the X4 axis "Spartan AP2000i" the new Co pilot II is about the same.
I think they are still taking orders for it .. but for my money the "CDP4" will do me.
Not sure if any of the other guys are using the "CDP4" on their SS's.

Once I get the wing loading up n the SS and get her trimmed right.. I might put on the "CDP4" to see how it goes. But for now I jut fly it as is..stock and use the thumbs. Really need to get the feel of this plane.. the call it a trainer.. and I supose it is .. but after flying for so many year the hardest plane for me to fly ,? yes you guessed it a trainer.. even my gas trainer is a pain to fly now.. maybe because you tend to over fly them.. something a new pilot can't do..
Going out again Thursday morning.. the more stick time I get the beter the fine tuning.
Started another project... the "Solution".. I know it not an SS but I have cut the the wings and hte wing secition. guess this is an SS thread. So I leave it at that.
Cheers
Richard.

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03-25-2009 12:54 AM  8 years agoPost 1475
mlmcquiggjr

rrApprentice

Tulsa, OK

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Solution- I vote to hear about it Here!

I can't speak for Kevin, but I'll bet he would be more than happy to see posts about your "solution" build. This thread is more of a "fixed wing" alternative, although most of the posts concern the mods of a slow stick. What do ya think?

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03-25-2009 02:42 AM  8 years agoPost 1476
ben1101

rrApprentice

Australia

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Hi Guys,

Well I joined the club!

I picked up my SS yesterday, and a few bits and pieces.

I have a question regarding the motor, as when I was at the shop the guy there insisted that I have a small, light motor, and me being new to planks, thought it sounded OK (he also told me this plane was ONLY to be flown indoors - so I guess I had my fair warning), so I came home with an AXI 2204/54 which is an awesome little motor, as far as looks go. Yet When I looked up the specs, its something like 1700KV, and only 6A -8A max.

So I thought thats a bit weak for lifting any sort of gear, so I put my Mini Titan motor on it which is 3500KV and can handle the 25A speedy I got for it.

I will start assembling the A/C tonight, and I already have a home made 360 degree pan gimble off of my 450 heli mount I can use.

My Question is this: Will this motor (this mini titan's) do a good job with a 9X6 prop? Or is it going to be way too much rpm?

What would you guys recommend as a good motor to get the stick and 300~g of cam gear up?

I thought I could always use the little axi on my FP helicopters with a 10A speedy for s*its and giggles anyway

Helicopters: The. Best. Ever.

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03-25-2009 04:34 PM  8 years agoPost 1477
Burnt Offering

rrKey Veteran

Winter Wonder Land,​Wasilla Alaska

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Hey Guys, Again I need to apologize for not being in here much lately. I want to thank all who have stepped up while I have been gone to keep the thread lively and informative. I just have been so wrapped up in other things and slowly but surely I am getting to where I can get in here more often. I am also working feverishly on another project that hopefully I'll be able to tell you about it soon.

ben1101 glad to see you on board. The guy at the local hobby shop said the SS was only for indoors??!! Now THATS funny! Memories of a few of my SS's being buried up to the wings in snow kinda make that theory null and void! Not familiar with the motors you are using, maybe someone else that has a little more knowedge about your motors can answer your questions.
Richard, fire away bro. Love to see your Solution Project. Bring it on.

Kevo

American by Birth, Alaskan by the grace of God!!

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03-26-2009 01:12 AM  8 years agoPost 1478
Guido44

rrApprentice

Near Chicago,​Illinois

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Good to see your back Kevin!

I thought you fell off the earth maybe.

I decided to experiment with a new project as well. I broke down and ordered a Magpie this morning.

I'll probably put the E-flight 480 on it and put the larger motor I got from BP Hobbies on the SS.

I'll keep you posted.

dan

http://www.danfarinastudios.com/

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03-26-2009 04:29 AM  8 years agoPost 1479
mlmcquiggjr

rrApprentice

Tulsa, OK

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Does Anybody have $335 to burn?

Rangevideo has upgraded their on screen display system for remote piloting for a more robust autopilot: (following taken from their site)

"New autopilot : automatic wing leveling and artificial horizon.
The autopilot has been updated to support windy weather flying and more aircraft types (flying wing elevon). The first generation auto pilot could fly only very stable airframes in low wind. This is because there were no external sensors to detect the pitch and roll. RVOSD Gen2 adds support for the FMA Co-Pilot IR sensors, which measure pitch and roll."

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03-27-2009 03:00 AM  8 years agoPost 1480
ben1101

rrApprentice

Australia

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Hello Again,

Man, Burnt - Having read this thread from the beginning I have to say I admire your enthusiasm! You have really got me into this project!

WEll, i have adapted my 450 heli mount to the slowstick, pretty simple just had to replace the skids with wheels. On the gymble itself, I have a full 360 degrees of pan!

I have ordered a 2GHz high power downlink and CCD camera for the FPV flying, and another 1.3GHz donlink for the camera operator. Thats the same setup I want to run on the heli - and I will be looking very closely at making the mount adaptable between the heli and SS with all the FPV/AV gear etc. ( I should have a Bergen Gasser anyway in a month - fingers crossed!)

Im not so sure about the size of my ailerons - might be too small.

And I will have to run a EFlite Park 480 1020 motor, the Mini Titan motor won't do it unless I run it on 7.4V lipos, and I would need the 11.1V to run the camera gear anyway.

I will make up a mount for the motor today, to be a pusher mounted behind the wing like Burnt's.

Helicopters: The. Best. Ever.

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HelicopterAerial Photography and Video › Yet another Slow Stick For AP Thread
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