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Scorpion Power Scorpion Power
09-13-2007 05:31 AM  10 years agoPost 21
RCHeliWorks

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RCHeliWorks

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got mine half built tonight, i really like this better then the ep400 controls look like there better push pull is great and a standard main shaft system
all i have left to do is tail section washout, swashplate and electronics
im really thinking hard about putting in the neu 1107 motor and the align 35amp controller, jr servo set and the new 770 gyro

guess what color its going to be my trademark bright orange!

chris

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09-13-2007 05:34 AM  10 years agoPost 22
RCHeliWorks

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RCHeliWorks

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i forgot to mention this will take 325mm blades wow this really makes me happy i have a set of 325mm v-blades calling my name

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09-14-2007 07:21 PM  10 years agoPost 23
dkshema

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Cedar Rapids, IA

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Chris, got that 450V flying yet? I'd like to hear a one-on-one flight comparison to the Trex 450 SE/SA, similarly equipped.

-----
Dave

* Making the World Better -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Team Heliproz

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09-15-2007 04:40 AM  10 years agoPost 24
RCHeliWorks

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RCHeliWorks

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should have it done tomorrow

chris

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09-15-2007 04:47 AM  10 years agoPost 25
dkshema

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Cedar Rapids, IA

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MY dilemma for tomorrow -- shoot the clear coat on the Caliber 4 canopy and be done with it, or use the forecast absolutely scrumptious fall day to go fly my other helis. Decisions, decisions....

Still want to know how THIS version stacks up against the Trex 450 SA/SE version with respect to flying qualities, abilities, and such. The EP400XP fell short, this one looks to have a fighting chance.

My only concern after seeing a couple of the close-ups in Dwight's gallery is that it appears that the MR grips are the same as the EP400/XP. I am concerned how well the collective will work with 325mm blades. I think that was the ultimate limiter in my stretched EP400XP experiment, but it could also be the Mickey Mouse collective arrangement on the XP. The direct CCPM linkage for the 450V could very well solve the problem I ran up against in my stretch XP version.

Looking forward to the flight test reports from Chris.

-----
Dave

* Making the World Better -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Team Heliproz

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09-15-2007 02:16 PM  10 years agoPost 26
Dwight

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West Chicago, IL

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So why is the blade grip a problem? It was not an issue with the XP as far as I know. I don't see where the XP came up short either. The collective system is not as precise as a CCPM setup but it never will be especially when you are using good servos. I have flown several T-Rexs and never found them to be better flyers than the 400 however I will qualify that comment with the fact that I have a liking or drive for smooth precision work and that is more in line with the stock 400/450 head. If you want more aggressive unstable flying you need to make changes. I have a number of friends that have T-Rexs and when we do the dome flying in the winter they always comment on how well the 400 flys.

Dwight

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09-15-2007 03:19 PM  10 years agoPost 27
RCHeliWorks

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RCHeliWorks

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im with dwight i enjoyed flying my 400 better then i did the se trex i had and from the looks of the 450v this is going to be a whole lot better, if the store is slow today ill have mine flying and ill let you know

did i tell you that the v-blades have won the rest were screaming to be put on but after listening to them all i decided the v-blades won

chris

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09-15-2007 07:17 PM  10 years agoPost 28
dkshema

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Cedar Rapids, IA

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It's not that I didn't like the way the 400XP flew. It was OK and if you'll read back through my EP400 build thread, I've always commented on how much the feel of the EP400 was like that of its bigger nitro brothers. I've also commented that the EP400/XP isn't as aerobatic as my Trex 450s.

If you search over on the Trex thread here, you'll see that there was a time I would have given the lot away and had nothing more to do with Align. But, I added some of their updated control parts and now find the SA I've had for about a year is a nice, great flying electric heli.

I stretched my EP 400XP to fly 325 mm CF blades about nine months ago. The stretch was a great improvement over those short 286 mm woodies. But -- I found the collective mechanism on the EP400/XP to be lacking. And after putting larger (and heavier) blades on the XP, I found my collective to be imprecise and it appears to be binding up at RPM. I haven't taken a closer look into the problem, maybe this winter would be a good time to do that.

The collective setup of the EP400/XP just isn't nice and clean. It has too many places for slop to develop and for friction and binding to crop up. The lever, the big slider on the MR shaft, the wire running in the slot of the MR shaft just aren't a first class design these days. That system worked well for the Schluter Heliboy 20 years ago...but that heli had a fixed swashplate and the collective mechanism at the head was much better.

You'll also notice that I've commented several times that with the EP400XP and 450V, Kyosho has adopted every single recommendation I made with my original review of the original EP400 over two years ago. The XP version adopted about 80% of those recommendations, the 450V appears to have adopted the remaining 20%, including stretching it to allow it to run 325 mm blades.

With respect to my EP400/XP, it never was as agile or as aerobatic as any of the Trex versions I've owned or flown. Smooth, yes, undeniably. Big helicopter feel, absolutely. Aerobatic, well, not quite. It rolls well, flies inverted well, loops kind of suck. They always have, no matter whether it was an EP400, converted to the XP version, or even a stretched XP version. THAT is why I'd like to see just how well this new 450V version with the totally redone collective and head stacks up. Since the head is a scaled-down Caliber 3/4/5 version, I have confidence that the 450V will finally live up to its full potential. THAT's why I'd like to know how this 450V holds up against the Trex.

The one remaining feature that the 450V could adopt would be to add a set of thrust bearings to the MR grip assembly.
Let's see how long it is before Kyosho adopts THIS recommendation, too.

I'm not a world class FAI flyer, not even a well known or accomplished 3D flyer. But having built and flown helicopters since the introduction of the DuBro Whirlybird 505 some 30+ years ago, I think I know a thing or two about what makes a good heli and what doesn't. I also find it very interesting that EVERY recommendation I've made (and TRIED on my own nickel) with respect to the EP400 has been fully implemented in the 450V.

In those past 30 years, there have been three helicopter kits that I have ended up regretting buying. An American RC Helicopters Revolution 40, a GMP Cobra, and the EP400. They all held promise when I bought them, they simply failed to deliver fully.

-----

As an aside, I finally shot the clear coat on my Caliber 4 canopy this morning. If it hardens soon, perhaps I can test fly today. Normally it would take a couple of hours to harden, but it's only in the low 60's today and that slows down the curing process.

-----
Dave

* Making the World Better -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Team Heliproz

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09-18-2007 12:09 AM  10 years agoPost 29
Dwight

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West Chicago, IL

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I added a few more 450V pics to my gallery.

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09-18-2007 03:17 AM  10 years agoPost 30
dkshema

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Cedar Rapids, IA

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Very nice -- and you picked the right color, I'm green with envy.

It appears that one more mod that Kyosho picked up on that I had ragged on them about was to fix the CG so the bird sits flat on its skids (even without the battery).

Is the canopy one piece now, or is it still that two-piece affair and you took some extra time in finishing to hide the seam?

-----
Dave

* Making the World Better -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Team Heliproz

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09-18-2007 03:37 AM  10 years agoPost 31
Dwight

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West Chicago, IL

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Dave,

It is still a 2-piece affair. Either the color or the light hides it well. As for the CG it is pretty much the same as before except the skids are designed differently so it may sit better without the battery.

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09-18-2007 03:49 AM  10 years agoPost 32
dkshema

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Cedar Rapids, IA

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You did a great job on that canopy! I like it. How did you join the canoy halves to keep them together long-term and hide the seam so well?

BTW -- I recently uploaded some pics of my virgin Caliber 4 into my gallery....

time to share....

-----
Dave

* Making the World Better -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Team Heliproz

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09-18-2007 01:29 PM  10 years agoPost 33
Dwight

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West Chicago, IL

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Dave,

I think the trick is to tape the inside. I looked at your gallery and it appears you tape the outside.

Dwight

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09-19-2007 12:53 AM  10 years agoPost 34
dkshema

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Cedar Rapids, IA

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That canopy on my XP isn't one of my crowning achievements. I was in a hurry, didn't do a great job of masking off the "windshield" and had trouble with the paint adhering. I tried painting it from the inside, using a transparent blue spray enamel like we used to do back in the Heliboy days.

The paint came out crappy, I cleaned it off and reshot the whole thing yellow. I tried some water-based paint stripper to try to strip off the enamel from the bottom half, and it started doing weird things to the plastic. As the stuff dried out, the entire bottom part started curling inward and I figured it was lost. When the darn thing was finshed with its curling, I hit it with my heat gun and to my surprise, it returned magically to its original shape. The inside surface was toast, so being somewhat PO'ed at it, I just sprayed the outside surface with yellow enamel.

The yellow is peeling, so it's even uglier than before.

Maybe if I decide to return the EP400 to its original un-stretched configuration, I'll have mercy on it and buy a new canopy and take some time to mask it, paint it, and assemble it.

-----

What kind of paint did you end up using on your 450V canopy?

-----
Dave

* Making the World Better -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Team Heliproz

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09-19-2007 08:30 PM  10 years agoPost 35
Dwight

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West Chicago, IL

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Dave,

You should try the Parma Fascolor. It is a water based enamel that is designed for clear bodys. That is what I use and it is outstanding stuff. If you make a mistake on the color you can wash it off before it dries. Costs is about $4 per 2 ounce bottle. You could paint several canopys with 1 bottle because the solid colors are very opaque.

Dwight

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09-20-2007 12:11 AM  10 years agoPost 36
dkshema

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Cedar Rapids, IA

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Cool. Thanks for the paint source. I'll probably have to find an on-line shop to order from, our LHS here is pretty pathetic, and if they HAD Fascolor, it would probably be at least 20 years old and I'd have to pick from colors that no one else wanted over the years.

---

By the way...back in the days when we had to build our wood rotor blades from scratch, we used to use Fasson Fascal (an adhesive-backed vinyl covering) to cover the bare wood. It was great stuff, and worked better than the heat shrink plastic as it didn't pull away from the surface of the blade in flight, nor did it have a tendency to shred.

I have a set of Caliber 30 woodies that I had used a heat gun to shrink the plastic covering...and the plastic split. They've been in my shop for a couple years and I could reclaim them for use on a Caliber 30 I recently sold a fellow here in town to save him some money. If I could get hold of some of that covering material, these blades would be usable.

Anyone know where to find it, or something similar?

-----
Dave

* Making the World Better -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Team Heliproz

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09-20-2007 07:34 PM  10 years agoPost 37
HeliK

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SoCal

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The 450V is now available. I will hopefully get mine finished by this weekend. Need to transfer everything from my 400 XP and get a set of 325mm blades.

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09-24-2007 04:59 PM  10 years agoPost 38
helinut01

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USA

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Where can you purchase the 450V?

Regards,

Helinut

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09-24-2007 05:03 PM  10 years agoPost 39
HeliK

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SoCal

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09-24-2007 05:13 PM  10 years agoPost 40
helinut01

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USA

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HeliK,

Tryed both sites and kyosho lists it but no where it can be purchased, any suggestions?

Regards,

Helinut

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