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HelicopterThunder TigerOther › Push Pull On Collective?
01-28-2007 07:12 PM  10 years agoPost 1
BrentC

rrApprentice

Utah, USA

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I have a Raptor 50 SE kit which I am assembling,and have bought the Titan Conversion kit. I am new to Raptors and was wondering what you would recommend as far as the push pull set up? Would you do the full setup or just Aileron?
Thanks for your input,
BrentC

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01-28-2007 08:29 PM  10 years agoPost 2
ThunderRobo

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Toronto, Canada

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push pull collective would mean tail servo on the tail boom.

Derek
Da' kid with the toyz!
"Time for some Muzak!"

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01-28-2007 08:51 PM  10 years agoPost 3
mickeyapples

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England

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I have a raptor 50v2 and did the titan upgrade. Very pleased with the results. Do the lot

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01-29-2007 04:24 PM  10 years agoPost 4
BarracudaHockey

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Jacksonville FL

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Id forgo it on the collective and leave the rudder servo in the canopy if it were mine.

Andy
AMA 77227
http://www.jaxrc.com

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01-29-2007 04:28 PM  10 years agoPost 5
pH7

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Sterling Heights, MI - USA

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Or follow this thread and maybe do both: http://runryder.com/helicopter/t317696p1/

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01-29-2007 09:15 PM  10 years agoPost 6
soulrider911

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Novato Ca

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i totally aree with mickey...I had a rap 50, then got a titan,,huge difference in collective respone, those who do not suggest it I am guessing have never flown with the push pull on collective or I think they too would supposrt it. Great upgrade, you can also get away with a less powerfull servo on collective because of the push-pull.

Why don't cats get gray hair with age?.....

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01-30-2007 12:30 AM  10 years agoPost 7
BlakeMcBrayer

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Georgetown, Ky

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I'm left shaking my head back and forth in disbelief.

Push/Pull doesn't have a darn thing to do with how it flies.

Oh, pardon me, push/pull is the new BUZZ word and everyone thinks they have to have it or it won't fly right.

I just wonder how we got this far without it?

Push/Pull does two things. First it give you a redundant linkage, just in case one pops off. But that is lost since it is still connected to the collective tray with a single linkage. Second it applies equal load to the servo output shaft, unlike a single linkage on a servo horn. This part does work on the TT design.

IMHO the only reason that the NEW kit has P/P in it, is that it is a "BUZZ" word that may help them sell a few more kits to those who don't know any better.

.

Don't come off the throttle untill you see your GOD!

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01-30-2007 12:50 AM  10 years agoPost 8
ThunderRobo

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Toronto, Canada

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you were suppose to tell them that after they got it LOL

Derek
Da' kid with the toyz!
"Time for some Muzak!"

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01-30-2007 01:00 AM  10 years agoPost 9
BlakeMcBrayer

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Georgetown, Ky

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you were suppose to tell them that after they got it
I'll leave that up to the Thunder Tiger Reps.

.

Don't come off the throttle untill you see your GOD!

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01-30-2007 01:18 AM  10 years agoPost 10
soulrider911

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Novato Ca

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all i can saw is WOW blake......blow hugely out of proportion. I was just trying to help the guy in the right direction...and as far as Mr.mechanics and Mr. geomety go,they say it does make a difference but whatever I am not going to argue.P.s. why the heck would pepople be going through the trouble to put the push pul collective on a 90....so they can use that cool "buzz" word "push-pull" I seriously doubt it.

Why don't cats get gray hair with age?.....

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01-30-2007 01:58 AM  10 years agoPost 11
BlakeMcBrayer

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Georgetown, Ky

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soulrider911

I'm not looking for or want an argument, I'm just expressing my opinion. Yes, the proportion of my reaction may be a bit much.

It's just how so many treat it like it's some sort of magic. IMHO there is no magic to it other than marketing magic.

The only benefit I see is reduced side loads on the collective servo. BUT, this benefit comes at the cost of putting a high dollar tail servo out in the middle of a oil field.

As for people putting them on R90's, I feel it's for the same reasons, "Buzz" words and the "I gotta keep up with the Jones" thing.

If anyone wants to run the P/P set up, then that is fine with me. You just won't find it on any of my three R90's. Nor would it find it's way onto a R50, if I had one.

Now, if it were made in QUK blue, I might find a way to add the blue bling of it, but only if I could keep the tail servo under the hood (which some are working on as we speak). BUT, it's not gonna make a bit of difference in how they fly.

.

.

Don't come off the throttle untill you see your GOD!

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01-30-2007 03:25 AM  10 years agoPost 12
soulrider911

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Novato Ca

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no problem Blake, like you I am just expressing my feelings. Have a good one

Why don't cats get gray hair with age?.....

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01-30-2007 01:48 PM  10 years agoPost 13
BarracudaHockey

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Jacksonville FL

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Blake is right though, the side load on the servo is the primary reason for P/P. A decent servo and good control geometry and you wont be able to tell the difference in flight between the two.

Andy
AMA 77227
http://www.jaxrc.com

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01-31-2007 05:48 AM  10 years agoPost 14
Kevin Dalrymple

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Indianapolis

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I have been running a Futaba 9202 on the collective and i bought the push pull for the collective and no matter what that other guy says it made a differece that you can see in the first flight. The collective pumping was a lot better and had more control. you might be able to get a good result if you got a Futaba 9451 or some thing along those lines but it wll cost ya. the $15 for the push pull in my mind is worth it. Try both ways and you will see the what is right for you. That is part of the fun in this hobby.

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01-31-2007 11:33 AM  10 years agoPost 15
S Bell

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Nova Scotia Canada

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While push/pull is structurally better and adds weight/complexity is it possible that the much longer arm on the collective push /pull mechanism is increasing the collective speed and crispness over the standard length servo arm? You may get a similar benefit with a long servo arm of the same arm dimension. I'd also think any time you increase the servo arm length that servo force at the control rod is lessened meaning that the servo is in fact under more stress in both cases of added throw. Just some quick thoughts I have after reading the above comments.

Stephen

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01-31-2007 12:48 PM  10 years agoPost 16
HollandRaptor

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The Netherlands

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I just wonder how we got this far without it?
Same story for the steam train, the roof over your head, your cell phone, your coffee machine, your car, the gyro in your heli etc. etc. It is called progression!

R30V1
R50 Titan/os 50 Hyper
E325 Mini Titan

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01-31-2007 01:10 PM  10 years agoPost 17
BarracudaHockey

rrMaster

Jacksonville FL

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Stephen isnt that put together backwards?? On the Titan I'm building the P/P is supposed to go above the collective servo and the inner hole on the pitch arm used.

Good point about the longer arm because P/P certainly doesnt do anything for the speed or crispness of the collective.

Andy
AMA 77227
http://www.jaxrc.com

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01-31-2007 01:18 PM  10 years agoPost 18
colsy

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Cambridge, UK

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Ive upgraded all my 50's with the push-pull on both the elev and collective.

And there are more advantages than people see at first:

As stated it removes all the side-load of the servo output shaft and bearing.

It stops the servo from 'rocking' in its mount, (unless you screw it up so tight) the isolation is lost.

There is a deduction in servo-to-link ratio, enabling the ATV'S to be dropped back to 80%, (collective) therefore speeding up the collective response.

Swash down to servo output shaft 'system play' is reduced to servo gear play only, (with a good setup).

The parts needed to do this cost 20 dollars all in.

So why would anyone not want to do it !!

For anyone, wanting to make the effort, it is very easy to keep the rudder up front, and only requires two extra spacers and some m3 studding.

I have done this on one of my 90's and the results are even more worthwhile.

I don't have any 'jones's' to keep up with and have no use for 'buzz' words.

Colin.

Only Quote From Experience.

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01-31-2007 01:24 PM  10 years agoPost 19
colsy

rrElite Veteran

Cambridge, UK

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Stephen isn't that put together backwards?? On the Titan I'm building the P/P is supposed to go above the collective servo and the inner hole on the pitch arm used.
The configuration in the above photo is done when keeping the rudder up front, if you look behind the PP unit, you will see the rdr servo.
Although the assembly needs the coll servo and PP unit switching over, to maintain the 3d point on the collective arm.

Good point about the longer arm because
P/P certainly doesn't do anything for the speed or crispness of the collective.
Yes it does.

colin.

Only Quote From Experience.

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01-31-2007 04:22 PM  10 years agoPost 20
S Bell

rrApprentice

Nova Scotia Canada

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Stephen isnt that put together backwards??
I stole the picture, it's not mine Just wanted to show the nice long arm. Good to see guys adapting their own setup-build methods for professional looking results (keeping TR servo up front with Collective PP).

Stephen

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HelicopterThunder TigerOther › Push Pull On Collective?
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