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01-27-2007 09:15 PM  10 years agoPost 1
UCGC

rrApprentice

Colorado

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It's time to get new batteries for my Raptor 50 and Evo 90. Is it really worth it to go Lithium. Looking at the costs of the regulators and batteries, it's going to add up. I really don't mind charging up while I fly the other heli. So, any other big advantage besides flight times?

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01-27-2007 09:46 PM  10 years agoPost 2
hrosee

rrApprentice

Richardson, Texas

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I just ordered one for my Raptor 90SE that I am putting together.

I got it here http://www.fromeco.org/

I ordered the 5200 mah battery. It comes out to a little less than $150 for everything one you are done. Is it worth it? I think so. I have 2 Raptor 50's now and have 2700 mah batterys in them now and seems like after 3 or 4 good full flights you have to top them off. I guess it just depends on if you want to mess with charging them at the field. Plus it will give me a higher voltage for the servos thus more speed.

I plan on putting the same setup in both my 50's in the future.

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01-27-2007 09:55 PM  10 years agoPost 3
UCGC

rrApprentice

Colorado

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I was going to go with the Arizona regulator and Peerless batteries. That way I can use my Accu-cycle Elite. I'm running 9252's on my 50 and 8311's on my 90...neither can run 6 volts. So I guess the only advantage is time between charging.

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01-27-2007 10:18 PM  10 years agoPost 4
BarracudaHockey

rrMaster

Jacksonville FL

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I consider Duralites one of my most worth while purchases for my helis.

Andy
AMA 77227
http://www.jaxrc.com

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01-27-2007 10:26 PM  10 years agoPost 5
UCGC

rrApprentice

Colorado

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I consider Duralites one of my most worth while purchases for my helis.
Why? I mean what specifically makes you feel so strongly about them?

I was considering Duralite, the costs of buying the charger kind of got me second guessing, though.

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01-27-2007 10:51 PM  10 years agoPost 6
playfair

rrKey Veteran

Rochester, NY

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Lithium doesn't have to break the bank.
A 5.4v UBEC ($40) and any 'ol 3S pack is all you need.
2000 mAh gives you a dozen flights!
These are only $25 from batteryspace, though you'll want to remove the over-sensitive protection circuit.
I am now running the LG 3S 2400 LiIon pack for $40 after retiring the smaller former after 100 charges over a period of 18 months (640 flights).

The switch harness is directly soldered to the battery and the ubec, so the only connector is to the receiver. I also added a modified voltwatch that actually works to give you warning when power is getting low.

The pros:
-Never charge at the field!
-Consistancy flight to flight
-Capable of higher voltage for increased servo performance
-Entire setup weighs less than a moderately sized NiMh/NiCd pack

The cons:
-Need lithium charger (any brand, though I charge the LiIons at 3.6v/cell)
-Added complexity, ie something else that can fail
-Switching regs can give radio interference, so placement is important.


The sky is our canvas

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01-27-2007 11:27 PM  10 years agoPost 7
UCGC

rrApprentice

Colorado

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Thanks PlayFair...exactly the type of info I was looking for.

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01-27-2007 11:32 PM  10 years agoPost 8
UCGC

rrApprentice

Colorado

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Oh, one more thing. Is the interference pretty common, or are some systems better than others? Not much room on the 50...how far apart do the reg and receiver need to be?

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01-28-2007 01:42 AM  10 years agoPost 9
ErichF

rrElite Veteran

Sutton, NH

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I get my batteries and regulators from http://www.troybuiltmodels.com

They make their own lithium-ion packs, identical to Duralites, for about 60% the cost.

I have their 5600mah redundant four cell flat packs, two cell 2800 mah packs, and I use the MPI heavy duty adjustable regulator (brass heatsink one).

I liked these packs and regulators so well (been flying them a year on my own stuff now), that I have installed them in a $10,000 UAV at work.

Check them out.

Erich

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01-28-2007 01:56 AM  10 years agoPost 10
UCGC

rrApprentice

Colorado

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My LHS has the MPI reg...think I'll take a look at it tomorrow. Do you just run it through a standard switch?

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01-28-2007 02:15 AM  10 years agoPost 11
BlakeMcBrayer

rrElite Veteran

Georgetown, Ky

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8311's on my 90...neither can run 6 volts
I have heard it both ways on the 8311. I have even seen some older DS8311 boxes (case the 8311 came in) that had 6.0 volt specs on it.

I have sent an email and a website contact to Horizon Hobby asking them if the 8311 can be ran on a REGULATED 6.0 volts. ANd if not, what is the max voltage it can be saftley ran at.

When I hear from them, I'll post what I hear.

.

Don't come off the throttle untill you see your GOD!

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01-28-2007 04:41 AM  10 years agoPost 12
ErichF

rrElite Veteran

Sutton, NH

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The MPI regulator is used with any switch. It goes between the switch and the receiver. There's a multiturn pot on it that is used to set the output voltage. I use the Futaba BR2000 battery checker to set the output voltage under a 2 amp load.

Erich

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01-28-2007 05:14 AM  10 years agoPost 13
marc8090

rrElite Veteran

Long Island, N.Y.

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I would not use the MPI regulator. A very knowledgable person told me that it is a very "noisy" regulator. Go with a Duralite or the Arizona. I switched to the Arizona and don't think I'll ever use anything else. Plus with it there's no switch to fail.

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01-28-2007 05:42 AM  10 years agoPost 14
ErichF

rrElite Veteran

Sutton, NH

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A very knowledgable person? I love these "unnamed sources".

I have the regulator velcroed right next to my Receiver, where it's been all along for the past year. I'm even using a whip antenna on the system. There's no "noise" from the regulator.

We have been running two of these regulators on aircraft for work. One is in an RC trainer plane, a Sig Rascal 110. The other is also a Rascal in which we have installed a Piccolo II UAV auto pilot system. We use the MPI regulator in that UAV as well. The Piccolo system has a built in spectrum analyzer, and would pickup stray noise that would affect the RF link. It's solid as a rock. I wouldn't trust a $10,000 system to components which I have little confidence in.

BTW, I have heard from a "knowledgable person" that has seen a few Fromeco Regulators just up and cut off. I suppose all those Fromeco Regulators must also be junk?

I use the MPI safety switch with the UAV system, which is a lot like the Fromeco Pin Flag Switches. It's a fail-safe switch that will fail to the on condition. These switches also have a built in charge jack.

While I'm a firm believer in getting what you pay for, in this hobby, I don't see any reason to waste good fuel money on overpriced components, especially since most of these things are made of the same parts sold under different companies. Buy what you want, I'm just offering a worthwhile alternative that works in my experience, and will save you a couple bucks. But what do I know...I've only been doing this for 20 years.

Erich

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01-28-2007 02:16 PM  10 years agoPost 15
BarracudaHockey

rrMaster

Jacksonville FL

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They arent cheap but they have built in cell balancing, the charger is as simple is as simple does, you plug it in and wait for the green light to go out. I dont have to worry about field charging. Never have had a problem with their regulators (or radio south regs which are made by the same place) and had the following exchange with Duralite.

I called on a Thursday...
"Hello I have problem with a pack"
DL-"I'm sorry but the guys are at a trade show out of state, can I take your name and number and have someone call you early next week"
Me-"Yes I'm in no hurry"
10 minutes later my cell phone rang
"This is Mark from Duralite how can I help you"
I sent the pack in on Monday, Thursday I got a call saying the pack was indeed bad and since it was over 2 years old it was out of warranty. However they would give me 50 percent off on a replacement pack.

Andy
AMA 77227
http://www.jaxrc.com

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01-28-2007 04:17 PM  10 years agoPost 16
BlakeMcBrayer

rrElite Veteran

Georgetown, Ky

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You know, when you get right down to it, both Fromeco and Duralite have some of the best products out there.

They both seem to put 110% into putting out top quality and stand behind what they sell with AWESOME customer service.

I have seen both Fromeco and Duralite products fail and I have seen plenty of other things fail. I just wish that the "other" failures were stood behind as well as DL and Fromeco does.

At the end of the day, it's like Ford & Chevy, Toyota & Nissan, it's just a matter of what YOU like.

BarracudaHockey

Just for info, The Fromeco Peerless packs also have built in cell balancing, over charge protection and over discharge protection as well.

I do like the "simplicity of the DL charger. It's fool proof enough for this (as in me) idiot.

.

Don't come off the throttle untill you see your GOD!

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01-28-2007 04:40 PM  10 years agoPost 17
playfair

rrKey Veteran

Rochester, NY

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UCGC, spacing for a switching reg isn't too hard...
They recommend keeping the UBEC 1" from the receiver or antenna, preferably with the flat side (ground plane) facing it.
On my R50 the ubec is double backed under the servo tray, with the battery immediatly on top of the tray, and receiver on that (over an inch). Never had a problem with this.

The Fromeco Seiko battery (3S 2600mAh) looks great at $39!
So really, for about $80 you can have a great lithium system.
For those really budget conscience, it's about the same price as purchasing two "normal" 4 cell packs, but you get more than twice the flight time for similar weight as a single pack


The sky is our canvas

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01-28-2007 05:58 PM  10 years agoPost 18
firefox

rrApprentice

Thailand

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Using 2 paralleled 6V BECs (cheap ones, $12 each) and 2 2200mAh 2S ($15 each) packs. Works fine on a Titan with 3 9451's, doing a lot of stick banging stunts. Needs a charge after every 10+ flights.

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02-02-2007 12:32 AM  10 years agoPost 19
BlakeMcBrayer

rrElite Veteran

Georgetown, Ky

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I got the reply from Horizon Hobby regarding the DS8311 running on 6 volts. Here it is:

Sent by me:
Subject: DS8311 voltage?

Simple question.

Can I run my DS8311 servos at a REGULATED 6.0 volts?

If not, what is the max voltage they can safely be run at?
REPLY
Simple answer.

Yes.

6V.

Thanks,

Matt Snyder

Product Support Team Member

Horizon Hobby Distributors

4105 Fieldstone Rd.

Champaign, IL 61822

877-504-023
REPLY to second email I sent, asking the same question
Blake,

The 8311 can be operated at 6V, which is also the max input voltage on
the servo. If you have any other questions, please let us know!

Thanks,
Matt Snyder
Product Support Team Member
Horizon Hobby Distributors
4105 Fieldstone Rd.
Champaign, IL 61822
877-504-0233
So it appears that we CAN run the DS8311 at 6 volts. I am planning on backing mine down to 5.8 volts. I figure it will be better than running them right at the max voltage.

.

Don't come off the throttle untill you see your GOD!

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02-02-2007 01:04 AM  10 years agoPost 20
UCGC

rrApprentice

Colorado

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Great info. Thanks for the update.

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