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HelicopterCentury Radikal G20-30 N640 Hawk Predator › My raven has arrived too. Couple of small issues.
01-27-2007 02:11 AM  10 years agoPost 1
gaanel

rrApprentice

Greenville, SC

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It has finally arrived!! Now putting it together.

Issue #1: The bearings do not fit into the rear of the blade holders correctly. The blade holders have a flat washer pressed into the bearing socket (on the side that butts up against the damper). This flat washer makes the bearing protrude out from the end of the blade holder (see picture). The problem is: one bearing sticks out .010 inches farther than the other bearing. .015 inches seems small, but do you want that on a rotating mass at 1950 RPM?? Also, the bearing that does protrude farther, does not seat level to the end of the blade holder. I get measurements on one side of about .058 inches, and the other side is .051 inches. This does not seems good. Any ideas?

Issue #2: Getting the red dampers seated was easy. However, getting the spindle into the red dampers is almost impossible without a press. I think I have it in there but one of the dampers is not seated completely. How can you seat the dampers with the spindle in??

Has anyone seen these issues? Should those washers be in the bearing socket on the blade holder end?

Thanks,
Gary

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01-27-2007 02:43 AM  10 years agoPost 2
SteveH

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Texas

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Gary,

Yes, the washers are supposed to be in the blade grips. Just make sure the washers and bearings are seated properly.

I've found the red dampers are easier to install if you first lubricate them inside and outside with silicone grease. Then push them into position with the shaft inside with a appropriate sized socket.

The government cannot give you anything without first taking it from someone else.

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01-27-2007 02:45 AM  10 years agoPost 3
Al Austria

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Gainesville, FL

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The bearing sticking out is normal and when you say washer do you mean the bearing's shield? The only washer on the hub side of the blade grip should be the one that goes inbetween the bearing and the dampener itself. As for the measurements, I very much doubt differences that small will affect anything as far as balance goes in the head.

As for getting the spindle to go through the red dampeners, I usually lube the inside of the dampener and push the feathering shaft with one complete blade grip and nut while rotating it with a socket wrench.

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01-27-2007 02:53 AM  10 years agoPost 4
gaanel

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Greenville, SC

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Washer

Two quick replies.

I did lube the heck out of the dampers and shaft and I have been using a socket. I need to get a longer socket though. I think I can get the dampers seated correctly with a little more effort.

The other issue, for the second reply, is that there is a pre-installed washer in the bearing socket in the blade holder on the side closest to the damper. It was installed by century and appears to be glued in. I just wonder if Century checked those washers with some calipers before installing. I am a design engineer and have done some machine building and when we used similar washers in tight areas, we would measure to find two exactly the same thickness. Normal washers are just stamped from the material and vary in thickness greatly. I tried to remove the washers but they appear to be glued in or something. I don't want to damage anything trying to pry them out. I tried my best to make sure the bearing is seated and it appears to be seated but still the end is still not parallel with the end of the blade holder. It appears to be slightly cocked.

Gary

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01-27-2007 03:01 AM  10 years agoPost 5
Ts8103

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Baltimore, Maryland

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I would't worry about the slight differecne in the blade grips. Think about this, fly bar weights are massed produced and never weigh exactly the same. But when you put them on the the flybar unless the weights are greatly different you never feel it, especially close to the yoke and you can't get any closer to the yoke than the blade grip. I say bolt them up and go fly.
Tone

Team Outrage
YS engines
Switchglo
Baltimore Boyz

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01-27-2007 08:09 AM  10 years agoPost 6
Gearhead

rrMaster

Vt

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Gary, I know the washers your talking about and they should not be glued in, I have pushed them out before,, I would not worry if 1 washer was .005 or even .010 ticker than the other, I'm betting NO 2 blades in a pair are much closer in length,, I guess 1 of those washers could have a burr from manufacturing,, but the grips look fine in the photos !!

Jim

Jim
Buzz Buzz Buzz

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01-28-2007 08:33 AM  10 years agoPost 7
helihell

rrApprentice

Canada

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I have left out the 9x13 washers in the blade grips on mine.
Is that an issue and should I put them back in?

On my hawk I noticed that the washers make the stock blade grip bearings
Flush with the back of the blade grip. When installing the upgrade 6mm spindle removing the washers from the blade grips allowed the larger (thicker) bearings to seat fully into the grip.
Could the washers be there acting as spacers for the hawk kits with thinner bearings and not needed in the Raven kits?
When building my Raven I just pushed them out of the grip and built without them. And like Hawk everything seems fine but not sure if I should put them back in.

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01-29-2007 12:33 AM  10 years agoPost 8
BC Don

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Calgary, AB Canada

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WRONG - No Washers

There should NOT be a washer in the Main Rotor Blade Grip between the bearing (on the head side) and the Main Rotor Blade Grip on the RAVEN. The confusion is that on the Hawk PRO there IS a washer in there (but the bearing is narrower on the Hawk PRO). UNLESS the Raven has been recently changed. I've attached the one page from the instruction manual (from the Century Site) that does NOT show this for the Raven but does show this washer between the first bearing and radial bearing (race) on the inside of the Main Rotor Blade Grip on the outside part. Sorry, can't attach the pdf here so you need to go to the Century site, hopefully this URL works properly:

http://www.centuryheli.com/support/...ision01/3_4.pdf

Got Money? Send it to me, I'm a Heli Addict.

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01-29-2007 12:49 AM  10 years agoPost 9
SteveH

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Texas

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Don,

The Hawk and the Raven/Falcon use the same thickness bearings...the bearings in the Raven/Falcon just have a larger I.D., 6 mm vers 5 mm on the Hawk. Neither instructions show the washer in the head, but all the current kits have them.

Edit: You are right Don, just double checked, and the bearings in the Raven/Falcon grips are 1 mm thicker, and therefore, the washers shouldn't be in there for the same tightness of damping. I do know, however, the late model ones come with the washers.

The government cannot give you anything without first taking it from someone else.

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01-29-2007 02:44 AM  10 years agoPost 10
DMehalko(DM)

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Colorado

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What would happen if we took them out? i cant seem to get the grips to operate smoothly when i tighten the feathering shaft bolts down nice and tight, even when the dampeners are flush with the head block

Century Radikal E640FBL

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01-29-2007 04:45 AM  10 years agoPost 11
SteveH

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Texas

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I think the only thing that would happen is the damping would become looser...the same thing as taking a spacer out from between the bearings and the dampers.

The government cannot give you anything without first taking it from someone else.

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02-02-2007 10:23 PM  10 years agoPost 12
gaanel

rrApprentice

Greenville, SC

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Problem solved!!!!!!

Well, I finally got back to completing the Raven. I removed the washer on the grip that had the bearing that was sticking out too far and was not perpendicular with the feathering shaft. There was a large hunk of plastic under one edge of the washer. Thus the plastic was tilting the washer and the bearing. I removed the plastic and cleaned up the edges of the washer and now both bearings stick out the same amount from the blade grips.

It may be wise for others to check their new Ravens. I would pop the washer out and make sure the bearing bore is clean and has smooth edges. I know it sounds minor, but a bearing that is cocked in the bore is not good and you will put more stress on that bearing and may have some binding, and excessive wear.

Gary

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02-03-2007 06:39 AM  10 years agoPost 13
DMehalko(DM)

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Colorado

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I took the washer out all together and left it out, when the bearings are fully seated they are 100 perfectly flush with the end of the grip, can sinch the feathering bolts down all the way with silky smooth operation of the grips with the red dampeners. Uncut!

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02-03-2007 07:47 AM  10 years agoPost 14
Al Austria

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Gainesville, FL

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DMehalko(DM),

If you seat the bearings flush with the end of the blade grips you pretty much lost the point of using the red dampeners in the first place. The bearings are supposed to stick out and compress the dampeners. I imagine the current dampening setup you have now won't be anymore effective than a head WITH washers and the stock black dampeners. Any binding you were getting with the washer setup on the ground will have absolutely NO effect when the head is loaded in flight.

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02-05-2007 02:49 AM  10 years agoPost 15
DMehalko(DM)

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Colorado

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I completely disagree with you, the compound of the rubber is the way it is no matter what you put on the feathering shaft after the dampeners, washers or not. the compressing makes perfect sense, but not smashing a washer up to it will not take away the stiff head dampening the red dampeners provide, wont make them "softer"

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02-05-2007 02:58 AM  10 years agoPost 16
SteveH

rrProfessor

Texas

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DMehalko(DM),

I agree with Al Austria, the tighter you shim the dampers, the tighter the damping, and corespondingly, the looser the dampers are shimed, the softer the damping. This is a well known fact and dampers are shimed by several other heli manufacturers as well as Century. Some even state the number of shims to use for certain flying types.

The government cannot give you anything without first taking it from someone else.

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02-05-2007 03:01 AM  10 years agoPost 17
DMehalko(DM)

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Colorado

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Either way, the dampening of the head feels extremely stiff, and i would rather make it a winch softer and have completely smooth operation, then have a little tighter and grips that hardly move

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02-05-2007 04:34 AM  10 years agoPost 18
Al Austria

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Gainesville, FL

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but not smashing a washer up to it will not take away the stiff head dampening the red dampeners provide, wont make them "softer"
I'm sorry to say, but that couldn't be any farther from the truth. I can guarantee you that if you fly the head without and then with the washers, that you will see a significant improvement in the cyclic response.

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02-05-2007 05:14 AM  10 years agoPost 19
Gearhead

rrMaster

Vt

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I'm with Steve and Al,, but there is always a but ,, as I have found, if you have to much pressure on the radial bearings (dampener side radial bearings) the bearings can get notchy..

and if you have a lot of pressure with out the radials being notchy the radials can prematurely wear, but it is highly likely that you will crash and damage the bearings before they become to sloppy..

Jim

Jim
Buzz Buzz Buzz

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02-05-2007 07:21 AM  10 years agoPost 20
DMehalko(DM)

rrVeteran

Colorado

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I'm sorry to say, but that couldn't be any farther from the truth. I can guarantee you that if you fly the head without and then with the washers, that you will see a significant improvement in the cyclic response.
hahah, i think i might fly both ways! Still waiting on my servos to come off backorder, then i can go break the heli in, after that i will fly it hard as is no washers, the will put them back in and try again, because now im just flat out curious, I really dont think someone has tried back to back to see if theres a "significant" difference

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HelicopterCentury Radikal G20-30 N640 Hawk Predator › My raven has arrived too. Couple of small issues.
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