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HelicopterBeginners Corner › Auto's while in idle up?
01-26-2007 05:55 AM  10 years agoPost 1
schoenju

rrApprentice

Springfield, oregon USA

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Can you auto while in idle up or do you have to hit the idle up switch and the throttle hold?

Justin Schoenberg

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01-26-2007 05:57 AM  10 years agoPost 2
schoenju

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Springfield, oregon USA

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oh yeah, and how do I go about controlling the tail while in an auto?

Justin Schoenberg

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01-26-2007 06:36 AM  10 years agoPost 3
rcadd1ct

rrElite Veteran

Richardson, Texas

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Hold normally over rides idle ups.

The main issue is bailing out of hold and you are still in idle up the motor tries to go full throttle and the blades fold. Then you have a mess.

You fly the tail down if it is driven. If not you try to point the nose into the wind and get the tail to weather vane.

-RCA .......... Making Cuisinarts Fly!!!!!!!

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01-26-2007 07:09 AM  10 years agoPost 4
951_Powerstroke

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Corona, Ca

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Switch back to normal before you auto.



Of coarse I know how to fly this thing, but if you see me running try to keep up!!

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01-26-2007 03:28 PM  10 years agoPost 5
BarracudaHockey

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Jacksonville FL

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http://www.ronlund.com/autos.htm

Andy
AMA 77227
http://www.jaxrc.com

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01-26-2007 05:47 PM  10 years agoPost 6
Andy from Sandy

rrElite Veteran

Bedfordshire, UK

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rcadd1ct, Get a radio that has a delay function. Then when you come out of TH while in idle up the engine spools back up slowly.

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01-26-2007 05:50 PM  10 years agoPost 7
Bell 430

rrApprentice

West Grove Pennsylvania

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PLEASE remember to go back to "Normal" BEFORE you flip out of throttle hold! I can tell you from experience, remember to flip back!

Brian Porter AMA 232513 My money flies better then I do

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01-26-2007 06:39 PM  10 years agoPost 8
PaulJC

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Hertfordshire UK

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With a well setup throttle and a radio with a delay function there is no need to flip into normal mode for an auto.

So are you guys saying you flip into normal mode for an inverted auto aswell?

Re-entering the atmosphere...

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01-26-2007 07:43 PM  10 years agoPost 9
rcadd1ct

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Richardson, Texas

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I have a radio with delay function.

I had more issues with the delay that just flipping an extra switch.

No matter how smart the radio is, I'd like to think I can be smarter than the radio.

-RCA .......... Making Cuisinarts Fly!!!!!!!

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01-26-2007 07:44 PM  10 years agoPost 10
BarracudaHockey

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Jacksonville FL

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If you flip into normal mode inverted you will pretty much be doing an auto anyways, do it long enough and it will be a blade stop!

Andy
AMA 77227
http://www.jaxrc.com

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01-26-2007 10:15 PM  10 years agoPost 11
schoenju

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Springfield, oregon USA

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thanks for that bit of advice! I'll be keeping that one on the simulator for the time being.

Justin Schoenberg

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01-26-2007 10:42 PM  10 years agoPost 12
Pyrock

rrKey Veteran

SF Bay Area

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I'm no auto guru but if all your modes have the identical pitch curve, then it shouldn't matter what mode you are in. This is why my "normal", "Idle Up1", "Idle Up2", and "Throttle Hold", all have the same pitch curves. Now, if you have different pitch curves, then you will have to switch to what ever pitch curve favors auto rotations! Turning OFF TH is a different story!

Trex 500, Stretched Logo 10 3D, Ion-X, Gaui 200

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01-27-2007 12:08 AM  10 years agoPost 13
MattJen

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UK

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it depends on what stage you are in flying,
i always go into an Auto from idle 2, the reason being is my idle 2 has a head speed of 1900, so the blades are moving fast to start of with, which does help, but as most of the posters say it is the remembering to click off idle up as you Auto down, or you will get a surprise as you unclick Hold,

The prev poster said about you shouldn't have different pitches for different flight modes, again it dpends on what stage your flying is.

I have 3 different pitch curves as the head speed is different in each mode, and for my Idle 2 i have to have a V curve as it is for Inverted so the pitch curve is going to be different.

In answer to your orginal question yes you can start an Auto in Idle up, it helps, but if you are just beginning to do Autos i would recommend you dont, as you will be nervous enough watching the hellie float down without having the extra worry of remembering to click out of Idle up.

Good Luck

Matt

All The Best

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01-27-2007 12:30 AM  10 years agoPost 14
Chief_USN

rrKey Veteran

Chesapeake, VA

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...just beginning to do Autos i would recommend you dont, as you will be nervous enough watching...
I second that. Keep the bird in NORM and just drop the throttle down all the way. Get a feel how the heli is going to float/free fall. You will have to adjust your pitch curve to make it react the same. As the bird is falling, control it on the way down. At about 10-5ft give it a bit of a flare while slowly increasing throttle. Bring the heli into a hover and do it again. Don't bring the bird all the way to the ground. Once you get comfortable with that, start doing small IDLE UP autos from about 3-5ft. Before doing this though, I would recommend somebody that knows how to auto try it to make sure it autos good. That's how the guys at our club taught me.

Chad

Team HeliProz 12-14
US Navy Chiefs...Unity, Service, & Navigation to the Fleet since 1893

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01-27-2007 12:49 AM  10 years agoPost 15
ppridday

rrKey Veteran

Detroit Lakes MN

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No matter how smart the radio is, I'd like to think I can be smarter than the radio.
Oh the things I could come up with for this quote....

You've helped me WAY too much to be mean though....

Paul

"There's someone in my head, but it's not me..."

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01-27-2007 01:06 AM  10 years agoPost 16
rcadd1ct

rrElite Veteran

Richardson, Texas

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Hehe.

OK. I guess I left myself wide open on that one.

-RCA .......... Making Cuisinarts Fly!!!!!!!

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01-27-2007 02:02 AM  10 years agoPost 17
schoenju

rrApprentice

Springfield, oregon USA

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so you could switch back to normal from throttle hold before you land and resume flying?

Justin Schoenberg

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01-27-2007 04:14 AM  10 years agoPost 18
rcadd1ct

rrElite Veteran

Richardson, Texas

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If you do not switch back to normal, and you bail out of throttle hold, it will try to go to your target idle up head speed. It will do this so fast the blades will fold and it will not be pretty.

I hit hold and pull back the left stick. I control the attitude of the nose with the right stick while I move the switch back to normal flight mode.

I continue the auto. If I need to bail, I just get out of hold. Other wise when on the ground i get out of hold and start to spool up again or kill the engine as I am done flying.

-RCA .......... Making Cuisinarts Fly!!!!!!!

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01-27-2007 06:30 PM  10 years agoPost 19
schoenju

rrApprentice

Springfield, oregon USA

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so in making an auto there is two things you can do, and correct me if im wrong.

situation 1:
a) engine dies
b) hit throttle hold to eliminate engine from the drive system
c) negative collective to spool up the head
d) use this spooled up energy in the head to control your descent by adding slight amounts of collective on the way down.
e)just as soon as you are about to land...Flair?...and then add collective to perform a successful auto.

Situation #1 is a classic forced (i.e. engine dies) autorotation.

Question: What exactly is a flair, is this when you pull the nose of the helicopter up slightly or is it when you add slight amounts of positive collective.

Situation #2 (essentially practicing for situation #1)

a) raise the helicopter to a sufficient altitude
b) hit throttle hold
c) follow steps c & d in situation #1
d) just prior to actually landing (and potentially destroying your helicopter because of your rate of descent) go back to "normal idle" (not in idle up anymore) and hit the throttle hold switch back to normal "throttle non-hold(or what)" essentially adding the engine back into the equation prior to landing.
e) continue to fly.

Questions: If you are not in throttle hold then what are you in? "throttle let go"? lol If you are not in idle up what are you in? "idle down"? Situation 2 is basically practicing the auto without actually landing, can this be done? What about hitting the throttle hold when hovering from around two feet, can you do this to practice getting used to throwing the switch while in flight?

Justin Schoenberg

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01-27-2007 07:49 PM  10 years agoPost 20
PaulJC

rrElite Veteran

Hertfordshire UK

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If your not in throttle hold your in one of the other flight modes, e.g. normal, idle up 1, idle up 2 etc.

If your not in idle up, your in normal or hold.

IF i have to bail an auto i couldn't care less if the tail shoots round (mine doesn't BTW), anything that stops it pileing into the ground and buys recovery time is good enough.

Even though the lack of tail control is a result of a lower headspeed at the time, gyro setup/performance plays a part

Re-entering the atmosphere...

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HelicopterBeginners Corner › Auto's while in idle up?
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