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HelicopterThunder TigerOther › Dreaded tail Kick on a R50....
01-23-2007 04:35 PM  10 years agoPost 1
Wally_Gator

rrApprentice

Diamond Bar, CA

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Yes I have searched and found some that look similar to my Kick but I am not sure..

Yesterday I was out practicing Nose in and every minute or so I would
get a clockwise kick of about 6 inches on the tail.
It is a R50V2 SE with the OS50 Hyper, GY401 gyro.
I have since taken the bird apart and will address a notchy main shaft bearing.
While I am at it I will test the pinion and clutch bearings.
Replacing the Gyro Tape all of the other fun stuff.
The belt was tight and in good condition and the motor was running at 170*.
The tail was solid except for the occasional kick. All other controls seemed to remain stable.
It was very dry yesterday and I am wondering if the bearing and low humidity contributed...

Thoughts?

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01-23-2007 06:04 PM  10 years agoPost 2
cgheli

rrApprentice

South Florida-USA

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You might want to check the pin in the tail gear to make sure it is not slipping out. You can turn the blades slowly and see if you hear any scraping sound coming from the tail gearbox.

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01-23-2007 06:42 PM  10 years agoPost 3
jdrayton

rrNovice

Bracknell, Berkshire, UK.

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What tail servo are you using?

I am using the 9254 with a GY401 gyro and so far the servo is failing every 60-70 flights with symptoms similar to your description.

Each time I replace the servo the problem goes away!

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01-23-2007 06:46 PM  10 years agoPost 4
JuanRodriguez

rrProfessor

The Villages, Florida

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the motor was running at 170
Not sure but that temp sounds like it's too low..... If so, the motor is running too rich and could cause the "kick" if the motor goes into a momentary 4 cycle mode....

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01-23-2007 07:49 PM  10 years agoPost 5
JAGNZ

rrProfessor

Auckland, New Zealand

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Yup, if you are running a 9254, check it. They can give this type of warning before failure. After mine failed for a 2nd time, I have now gone to a LogicTech setup on my 50 instead. Also check for notchiness in the tail grip bearings, that can also cause issues if they are badly notched. I have to replace mine about every 100 flights.


Jason Greenwood

www.3dheli.co.nz

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01-23-2007 07:56 PM  10 years agoPost 6
Wally_Gator

rrApprentice

Diamond Bar, CA

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Ok, Probably a dumb question...

How do you check a 9254?

But I am not seeing a too rich or too low kick.
Been there done that before. Temp is measured and also the finger on the back plate method is used..

The kick looks as though the tail received a signal to move 20-30* clockwise...

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01-23-2007 08:03 PM  10 years agoPost 7
Wally_Gator

rrApprentice

Diamond Bar, CA

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Tail pin and bearings have checked out fine.
That was the first place I looked..

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01-23-2007 08:06 PM  10 years agoPost 8
JuanRodriguez

rrProfessor

The Villages, Florida

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Ok, Probably a dumb question...How do you check a 9254?
Not a dumb question at all....

Unfortunately, there is no way for the end user to "test" these....

Best you can do at your end is to replace it with a new one or known good one and see if the problem goes away..... beg, borrow or steal from your buddies....

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01-23-2007 08:08 PM  10 years agoPost 9
jdrayton

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Bracknell, Berkshire, UK.

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I don't think that you will be able to check your 9254. In my experience they fail with an intermittment internal electrical fault.

The best bet would to replace it with a new servo and return the potentially faulty servo to get it checked out.

How many flights have you had with your current set-up?

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01-23-2007 08:11 PM  10 years agoPost 10
Wally_Gator

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Diamond Bar, CA

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Maybe 3 gallons worth...
I seriously need to burn more fuel.

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01-23-2007 08:19 PM  10 years agoPost 11
jdrayton

rrNovice

Bracknell, Berkshire, UK.

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I guess that's probably only 30-40 flights.

In total I have approx. 170 flights on my Raptor.

The first 9254 failed at about 70 flights - I couldn't send it back to the supplier as it was an E-Bay purchase!

The replacement 9254 was purchased from a local RC store and lasted about 40 flights. This servo was returned and replaced under guarantee.

The latest servo hast just failed at 60 flights. It has been sent back to the local RC store and I am awaiting feedback.

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01-23-2007 08:37 PM  10 years agoPost 12
Wally_Gator

rrApprentice

Diamond Bar, CA

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I am going to replace the KNOWN bad bearing first,
If after that, I still see the kick I will swap the servo with one that is sitting on my second bird that has yet to be flown.

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01-23-2007 09:02 PM  10 years agoPost 13
Barney

rrKey Veteran

Inverness Scotland

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Could well be a static discharge from the tailbelt

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01-23-2007 09:19 PM  10 years agoPost 14
Wally_Gator

rrApprentice

Diamond Bar, CA

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The questions keep on coming...
That is why I posted here. I would rather fly than troubleshoot.
While I have the bird apart for repair (main shaft bearings)
I want to make sure I hit all that I can.
It has been extremely dry here lately and Static could very well be the culprit.
CF blades, all metal head coupled with the belt and plastic..
Static heaven...

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01-24-2007 01:34 AM  10 years agoPost 15
baby_zyklon

rrElite Veteran

Singapore

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If the tail kicks so occasionally and randomly with a sudden change in engine sound, you might want to check the mixture also, richen it a bit.

jdrayton, may I know what gain are you running your 9254 on? I have a 502+9254 that has well over 150flights and still working. What me and a few fellow flyers found out is that the gain on the 9254 cannot be high. It will not wag with a high gain, it will only get very hot. I am using the second last hole on the "4legged horn" with a gain of 41%. I can push it to 70% gain on this set up and it will still not wag, it just get very hot. So maybe you might want to check your gain if you are experiencing 9254 premature death.

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01-24-2007 02:15 PM  10 years agoPost 16
Wally_Gator

rrApprentice

Diamond Bar, CA

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If the tail kicks so occasionally and randomly with a sudden change in engine sound, you might want to check the mixture also, richen it a bit.
The funny thing about this comment is, when did I ever state that there was a sudden change in engine speed? There was no change in engine speed.

Just for everyone who wishes to help...

1. Thank you...
2. Let's leave out the Mixture as a possible source. This was checked
first at the field as soon as I saw the first kick.
3. Mixture kicks that I have seen before do not kick the tail as far
was happening on Monday.
4. I will reiterate that I have identified a bad mainshaft bearing
and while I am at it I am replacing start shaft, pinion support and
mainshaft bearings.

Again, thank you all for your suggestions..

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01-24-2007 02:30 PM  10 years agoPost 17
Barney

rrKey Veteran

Inverness Scotland

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Wally_Gator from the CSM website..took a while to find but heres the blurb

The model twitches erratically and violently in yaw.
(In my case it was not so severe more of a little bump and twitch like a small radio hit. I was using a PPM RX)

If you are using a belt-driven tail, then the problem is probably static electricity. If this problem is not sorted, then it may cause damage to the electronics on your helicopter. An anti-static spray on the belt is the easiest solution. It is also possible to get grounding systems which ground the electricity safely.

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01-24-2007 06:27 PM  10 years agoPost 18
jdrayton

rrNovice

Bracknell, Berkshire, UK.

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baby_zyklon

I have been runnning at 55% gain and using a similar servo horn set-up to your description.

JAGNZ

Are you using the LTS-6100G with a GY401?

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01-24-2007 06:39 PM  10 years agoPost 19
JAGNZ

rrProfessor

Auckland, New Zealand

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Nope, I am using the G/T Gyro/Servo combo - and love it so far. Flew about a gallon with it Sunday.


Jason Greenwood

www.3dheli.co.nz

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01-24-2007 10:44 PM  10 years agoPost 20
baby_zyklon

rrElite Veteran

Singapore

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Wally, I hope you do notice the IF at the front that sentence.

jdrayton, maybe you might want to check the temperature of the servo after a flight. That might be the key to your 9254 not lasting. Honestly, I think it is stupid to make a servo and not being able to run it at any where near max possible gain without killing the servo, but I don't really get a lot of improvment going from 50% to 60% gain. Yes, I went up to 75% in the inital flight with no wagging. The servo was HOT.

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HelicopterThunder TigerOther › Dreaded tail Kick on a R50....
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