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HelicopterMain Discussion › Helicopters and Planes - can we get along
01-22-2007 06:04 PM  10 years agoPost 1
rkeith2

rrVeteran

Norco, CA

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Well, rumblings are starting at the field about too many helis and they should fly here and they should do this.

I fly planks as well and enjoy them but not like heli's for sure -

With that said, I get nervous with some pilots on the line and prefer to wait my turn.

In talking with friends from other fields, it seems to boil down to all of us getting along or not - I hate to start asking too much out of the ordinary realm of safe flying and I also hate to think about telling the fixed wing guys too much.

Anyone else found any kind of friendly solution?


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01-22-2007 06:14 PM  10 years agoPost 2
jjeaster222000

rrVeteran

Bedford in

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i really dont have a solution but i think that the reason the "plankers" dont like us heli guys is because they cant fly helicopters. I really wish that every one would understaind that a plank is just as dangerous as the helis. just my 2 cents

Team Synergy

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01-22-2007 06:30 PM  10 years agoPost 3
Mark C

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Houston, TX - USA

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If you look closely you can see that my blades were a bit out of track.

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01-22-2007 06:36 PM  10 years agoPost 4
Ken Filloon

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Highland, Michigan

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The problem is that the helicopters steal the show everytime and the plank guys just do not like it.
If I have to watch one more trainer 40 fly a 20 minute tank of fuel out I think Ill kill myself.

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01-22-2007 06:39 PM  10 years agoPost 5
SteveH

rrProfessor

Texas

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It's not the danger of the heli vers the plane thing....it's that the airplane flyers can't fly when there is a heli hovering over the runway, or doing 3D over the runway. It prevents them from hearing their engine, which scares them because that's the only way they know of an engine out until it's too late. They can't use the runway because of fear of hitting the heli. They are scared of being hit by the heli and can't look to see where it is because they have to keep their eyes on their airplane, or crash.

I know all of this because I also fly airplanes and helis at my airplane club field. If the heli flyers would fly like I fly my helis at the plane field it would help, and that is, I fly my heli there as if it were a plane...I fly the pattern with the planes doing aerobatics at will, in the pattern. By doing that, I don't tie up the runway and scare the plane pilots.

The problem is the helis in the airplane environment, not the reverse and we need to understand that and learn to deal with it, or suffer the consequences of being excluded from airplane fields.

Now, flame away, I'm a big kid and can take it.

The government cannot give you anything without first taking it from someone else.

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01-22-2007 06:39 PM  10 years agoPost 6
jjeaster222000

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Bedford in

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If I have to watch one more trainer 40 fly a 20 minute tank of fuel out I think Ill kill myself.
lol i have seen a 25 min tank

Team Synergy

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01-22-2007 06:40 PM  10 years agoPost 7
reddragon

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Brooklyn, N.Y.

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Okay. But what about the guys who fly helicopters AND planes?

Wayne - Fly it like you stole it! You're in good hands with Runryder!

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01-22-2007 06:40 PM  10 years agoPost 8
psych-lick

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Portland, OR

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If I have to watch one more trainer 40 fly a 20 minute tank of fuel out I think Ill kill myself.
ROFLMAO... LOL... that's awsome!

-Jeff T.

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01-22-2007 06:43 PM  10 years agoPost 9
rkeith2

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Norco, CA

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I had thought that the fixed wing guys were jealous but there are many that ask about them, want to learn, want to buy a CX2 etc.

For the most part i am starting to get pulled into the old timer, curmudgeon, resistant to change scenario.

Right now I am at the stage where I want to put up a safety reminder for both planes and helis with advice on where to learn to hover and where to do 3D, tell the plane boys to let people know if they need protected airspace and are scared.

After that - you complain, you can fly at another field


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01-22-2007 06:52 PM  10 years agoPost 10
eyeflyhelis

rrElite Veteran

charlotte nc

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helis hovering and flying 3d- blah blah blah
what about the planes that do it over the field?
i fly both also but the biggest problem i see is that they get to close to the heli's when you fly together. i understand that and still take my chances.
so i guess my arguement is in a heli hovering on the runaway i can leave before a plank in a hover, so what the difference?

only you have the power to make no difference!

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01-22-2007 06:58 PM  10 years agoPost 11
SteveH

rrProfessor

Texas

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The planes hovering over the runway is the same problem. Watch and you won't see many other plane flyers flying when that "type" of flying is going on. It's not quite as bad in the plane flyer's eyes and they aren't as afraid of being hit.

Collectively as heli pilots we need to realize this and work toward a resolution because if we don't, we will loose in most cases because we are outnumbered and will be voted out of the clubs. It's happening every day and we all see it.

We can make jokes all day long about the boring trainers, and they are boring, except for the pilot learning to fly them. The fact remains, there are usually more plane pilots than heli pilots at a plane field and they have the voting strength.

The government cannot give you anything without first taking it from someone else.

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01-22-2007 07:02 PM  10 years agoPost 12
eyeflyhelis

rrElite Veteran

charlotte nc

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Steve i have a great resolution!!!
paint ball markers on our heli's, the we can shoot them down and the field is all ours

only you have the power to make no difference!

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01-22-2007 07:02 PM  10 years agoPost 13
scotter

rrApprentice

Winston-Salem, NC

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One theory

I have a theory about the helis and plane problem that I'd like to share. As heli pilots, we typically start out hovering and generally using very little space. Seeing how little space we're taking up, other pilots have no problem going out and sharing the the airspace with us, especially if we're just hovering low and they're working more 'upstairs'. On top of that, the extreme maneauverability of helis allows us to operate in a very small space if required, and we get used to that very quickly in our learning.
Now contrast that with a plane, which requires lots more space for landing, taking off, and general maneauvering. Plane pilots, especially if they're newbs and other fliers are staying out of their way, get very used to having the flightline pretty much to themselves for their 10-15 minutes of fame.
Now let's add to the fact that airplanes have a fairly continuous flightpath. By that I mean their movements (typically, I'm not talking hovering 3D capable machines here) continue in fairly straight lines with pretty large radius turns. This makes it fairly easy to keep track of other planes flying around you by listening and catching occasional glimpses of other planes in the same airspace as yourself. Helis, on the other hand, can change direction almost instanteously, and often do so, with much smaller radius turns, rapid flips, etc. This makes it much more difficult to keep track of other helis around you. Most heli pilots get used to this fairly quickly because we often train with this environment around us from early on in our hovering stages. For strictly airplane fliers, however, I think it tends to be a little unnerving and they get nervous because they have trouble keeping track of where the helis our with respect to their airplane.

That's my $0.02. We have similar problems at our field, but we have two runways and try to keep our separation from each other. Still, there are the occasional old ladies (as I like to call them) that just want to bitch about anything different from what they've been used to for the last 40 years. I try to be accomodating and understanding, but have been known to let them how I feel on occasion when they decided to run their mouth about 'those helis.' Fortunately the heli flyers at our field have really stepped up and helped out a lot at our club, at events, fund raisers, maintenance days, etc. and it makes it a little harder for the old ladies to bad mouth us too much since we're supporting the club pretty significantly.

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01-22-2007 07:06 PM  10 years agoPost 14
rkeith2

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Norco, CA

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SteveH has a valid point -

We are becoming a majority heli club so we are the lucky ones so far but i still want to get along and not get the the ultimatums.

I had not thought about the hovering planks as I have an Extra 260 with a Saito 220 that can certainly do it on the deck i prefer to stay up in the air a ways.


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01-22-2007 07:06 PM  10 years agoPost 15
BarracudaHockey

rrMaster

Jacksonville FL

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2 runways, separate flight lines, very few problems. I fly both too. At the other club I fly the pattern, dont hover and flip or whatever over the runway when someone's on a trainer cord and get along pretty well.

Andy
AMA 77227
http://www.jaxrc.com

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01-22-2007 07:09 PM  10 years agoPost 16
SteveH

rrProfessor

Texas

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Yep, Scooter has the idea. They simply don't mix well together because of what we have said. Simply put, when we fly over the runway, the plane pilots are scared and can't use the runway.

If we as a whole want to continue to fly our helis at plane fields, we must learn to work it out. We have the capability of changing, but the plane pilots because of the restrictions of the vehicle itself, do not. But again, they have the voting strength.

The government cannot give you anything without first taking it from someone else.

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01-22-2007 07:24 PM  10 years agoPost 17
rotoryrob

rrVeteran

Auburn WA

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there can be harmony

where I fly at they have a hover area for setup and beginning hover. The main field which is shared by both have to follow the rule of the field which are close to a real airport. Runway is for take off and landing nothing else, 3-d manuvers are to be performed out over the field away from the runway. while landing need to follow flight pattern. Announce you are coming in and land. The only thing I had is the wait to fly. I just don't like sharing the air so I fly at a private field with a few other heli guys I end up flying 5 times as much no waiting can fly close and all the 3-d you want. I hate the public fields. I have been shot down 5 times and all at the public fields.

Rotoryrob

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01-22-2007 07:46 PM  10 years agoPost 18
alvinrc

rrKey Veteran

Mobile, AL, USA

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I am lucky to belong to a club where we fly all types of model aircraft and manage to get along pretty well.

Members are fairly evenly split between Scale airplanes, Giant Scale 3Ders, regular old hole in the air borers, and Helicopters.
And a good many members who fly some of everything.
Funny how the pit area has evolved into categories. We have two seperate pit areas with a large HQ/Pavilion in between, neutral ground I reckon.
Most scalers and 3D planes setup in north pit and the trainers and helicopters mostly in south pit.
We pilots will visit back and forth and give the other fellows hell about their flying style and aircraft. They will say that they are slumming by visiting we chopper folks and we will visit and ask them how long does it take for them to sit and look at a new quarter scale J-3 Cub before working up courage to fly it.

Somehow we have reached a consenous of openion that we are all out to have fun and fly whatever aircraft we have. We make a point to remind each other that even the cheap ready to fly out of the box two channel stuff has the same right to air time and pit space as the mega dollars models. We all pay the same dues.

We have a dedicated space off to the side for chopper training, hover practice and some limited FF stuff.
Chopper FF flying on the main flight line is unlimited with the close in 3D stuff done when there is not another pilot standing in ajacent pilot station and airplane is flying high. Most times it works well with some communication and coperation required.

Don't get me wrong, not always hugs and kisses, but has been workable with a strong application of common sense and courtesy.
Enough of us have come to conclusion that we are a more successful club if we realize that we can't always have it all our own way all the time and a place can be found for everyone.

Club has not always been this way, but has evolved in this way thank goodness.

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01-22-2007 07:53 PM  10 years agoPost 19
Havoc

rrElite Veteran

Ky.

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We have a good mix but there are always those few that just need to start problems. I am sure that if helis never existed they would find something else to complain about.

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01-22-2007 08:10 PM  10 years agoPost 20
Mark C

rrKey Veteran

Houston, TX - USA

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I agree with SteveH on this one for sure.

You have to regress back to the days that you were flying your first fixed wing trainer with giant sweat rings around your armpits. You have to imagine how much more uncomfortable it would have been for someone to jump a Helicopter or 3D plank right up in front of your face while you were trying to your best ability to get acclimated to this new experience.

A very bright person (club president, heli and plank flyer) said to me:

"There has to be room in this hobby for everyone to enjoy it."

And he is correct.

One of the main things that I see again and again that begins the tear in the club fabric is that groups begin to form and segregate. And then they get to where they don't even communicate. And then they begin to point fingers at each other and dislike each other - all based on the type of flying they do. This is a tragedy. Think of how silly it actually is - especially if you were at one time part of that other group when you were flying planks.

This is not exclusive to us heli guys - I have seen Pattern guys break off into there own group and try to "own" the field. I have seen members of the Profile Brotherhood get shunned for flying 3D planks.

The simple rule is: don't stoop to this behavior. Mix it up. Everybody needs to learn to hang with one another and respect one another's flying ability. If you hold on to the "Plankers are jealous because they can't fly as good belief" then I can certainly introduce you to a few of my plank flying friends that could problably borrow your TX and teach you a thing or two on your own machine.

The picture I posted above occurred right at the border of the Plank/Heli area. Both aircraft survived and we laughed, shook hands, and shrugged it off all because we were friends. I was one of his original instructors so he came up with the "No Helis" stickers on the side of his plane as a joke. If it had been another club where tensions had built up between two distinct groups then that incident could have been the proverbial back breaking straw.

"There has to be room in this hobby for everyone to enjoy it."
Keep that in mind.

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HelicopterMain Discussion › Helicopters and Planes - can we get along
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