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HelicopterFlybarless Rotor Head SystemsOther › Prototype CSM Flybarless System test.....Update
01-27-2007 11:43 AM  10 years agoPost 161
Yug

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UK. Herts

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Tremendous news.
Great things are worth waiting for, including the new servos I ordered for this system that haven't arrived yet

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01-27-2007 11:50 AM  10 years agoPost 162
Colin Mill

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England

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Hi Yug

I'm sure that, just like the tail, the quality of the servos on the cyclics is going to play a big part in the overall performance so good servos are almost certainly worth the wait.

Colin

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01-27-2007 11:55 AM  10 years agoPost 163
Yug

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UK. Herts

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Colin what do you reckon on the idea of mounting the 2 gyros and cyclock as a single rigid 'lump' and this whole 'lump' is then soft mounted on the frames. The idea here is to increase the'lumps' mass and so reduce the vibes to which the 'lump' is subjected. ?

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01-27-2007 11:56 AM  10 years agoPost 164
Colin Mill

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England

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Regarding labels, hopefully they are not rigid as those with first batch of ICG360 they were a nightmare just kidding
Oh, labels are a nightmare - over the history of the company they have caused more trouble than you can believe!

Colin

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01-27-2007 01:34 PM  10 years agoPost 165
Colin Mill

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England

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Hi Yug

Yes, as a general rule the increase in the mass would make it easier to engineer an effective AV mount so if there is a single space in the model big enough to accommodate the unit that would be very good. We do have 100mm interconnect leads which would come into their own for such an installation.

Colin

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01-27-2007 04:48 PM  10 years agoPost 166
Yug

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UK. Herts

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I have the perfect space, directly under the radio tray. CG wise this would help the current fore-aft setup a bit and the only disadvantage I can see is lowering the CG.

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01-28-2007 06:13 AM  10 years agoPost 167
dualathlon

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On the sky

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Budget gyro :)

Hi,

I would like to ask: does CSM also include SL560 as an cheaper alternative? (likely for micro electric heli)

And does this system support flight mode switching? I mean it can be setup with high stability for beginner/AP work (high "virtual Hiller" ratio), then switch to wild animal for 3D (low hiller ratio).

Best regards.

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01-28-2007 07:01 AM  10 years agoPost 168
Wheelhaus

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Denver

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I believe only the SL720 is utilized here, as it can exclusively be programmed beyond normal "tail gyro" functions. There may be other reasons, but I have only heard the 720's are suitable because of their versatility.

And yes, it should be programmable for 2 flight modes, to change both axis "gain" at the same time simply use a "Y" harness connected to both gyros, one channel changes both gyros.

..........
Dave

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01-28-2007 11:00 AM  10 years agoPost 169
Colin Mill

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England

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Hi dualathlon

The possibility of using a pair of 560s for the cyclics is an interesting one. The revision 4 code of the 560 is about as close to the 720 code as I could get it. I have done all the initial cyclic work with the 720 as the sensor drift is so low (less than 5 deg/minute) so that is one thing I can forget about for the moment. The 560 gyro uses a software anti-drift system as the inherent drift of the sensor higher. It will certainly need some testing to establish if the anti-drift software works OK in the different environment that the cyclic operation gives. Certainly, once we have established the right way to go with the internal setting of the 720 it should be straightforward to translate that to the 560 and establish if its a reasonable proposition. Could be interesting for small electrics!

Best regards

Colin

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01-29-2007 09:17 AM  10 years agoPost 170
ChristianM

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Oslo, Norway

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140 deg swashplate

Colin, can the CycLock handle a 140 deg swashplate setup? Or does it make a difference with the geometry corrections that the CycLock performs? I would still think that there is a benefit to using 140 deg swashplate since it provides equal servo travel for elevator input and thus you will not get any interaction due to two of the servos "arriving" at their commanded position sooner than the last one or can the CycLock compensate for this by "slowing down" two of the servos?

Christian

Burn fuel, be happy

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01-29-2007 09:38 AM  10 years agoPost 171
Colin Mill

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England

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Hi Christian

Yes, because I wanted to allow for servo sensitivity differences I made the mix percentages continuously variable for each control into each servo so CycLock can also cope with any CCPM angle.

There is an adjustable servo speed value you can adjust to match the speed of the servos. This is used by CycLock to control the speed of the left and right servos in elevator movements so that they run in synchronism with the centre servo in 120 CCPM.

The geometry correctors are also quite flexible and will cope with the normal CCPM interactions. I have not put in electronic correctors that would correct for imperfect adjustment of the linkage at zero collective as this would add at least 5 additional adjustments to the interface and in my view this is better done by getting the pushrod lengths right so that arms and bellcranks are at rightangles when the swashplate is centred (there are fine servo trims on CycLock to help in doing this and these reduce the need to mess about with arms on servo splines)

Best regards

Colin

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01-31-2007 06:10 PM  10 years agoPost 172
Wheelhaus

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Denver

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Who will be our first contact for purchase in the States?

I'd like to buy the whole package all at once...
(I have the money set aside right now to do so) but if it would be easier, I can purchase two SL720 gyros now, and purchase the Cyclock mixer separately. If I must pay for overseas shipping to get the first release, I'll do so unless it's terribly expensive.

..........
Dave

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02-01-2007 10:31 PM  10 years agoPost 173
Wheelhaus

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Denver

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Also, do you plan to ship the cyclock with the old style LPT port or (much preferrably) the newer USB adapter?

..........
Dave

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02-01-2007 11:07 PM  10 years agoPost 174
Colin Mill

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England

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Hi Dave

We are not sure which shops will be interested in handling CycLock - obviously, in the early days we will be very hands on at the factory as far as technical support is concerned.

We are looking at changing the way the interfaces are distributed as it makes sense if users can buy just one interface of whichever type they prefer for all all their CSM devices.

Best regards

Colin

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02-02-2007 03:31 AM  10 years agoPost 175
ESWLFSE

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Liberty Hill, TX

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Can someone please explain to me briefly what exactly the electronics do to manage a flybarless head? I understand that they are inherently pitchy, sensitive, and unstable but how exactly do electronics like these or the V-Stabi make them more flyable??

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02-02-2007 03:54 AM  10 years agoPost 176
Furious Predator

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Kitchener, Ontario, Canada

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the impression i have is that it has the same effect as the gyro on the tail.
the gyros pick up roll and pitch rates and compensate to give a certain cyclic rate, just like when you give your heli rudder.

unless your using JR gyros. if thats the case, it doesn't matter what you do to your tail, the control is crap

Shawn
Team Leisure-Tech
Team HelixRC

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02-02-2007 05:30 AM  10 years agoPost 177
Wheelhaus

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Denver

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It allows you to get rid if the flybar, which is a mechanical mess of linkages and what not. It causes drag, and the faster you move through the air the more drag it creates. Drag sucks power. Eliminating the flybar mechanisms allow more power to transfer directly into the blades. That means more efficiency, longer flights, etc.

Eliminating the flybar by itself doesn't help much because the heli loses it's stability, becomes pitchy in forward flight, etc. The gyros overcome this tendency and make the heli stable again.

..........
Dave

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02-02-2007 08:23 AM  10 years agoPost 178
gkoutsis

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Athens Greece

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Isn't the flybar suppose to help with the cyclic response as well? I would imagine removing the flybar, will make the heli very slow. I could be wrong of course.....

George

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02-02-2007 09:13 AM  10 years agoPost 179
Yug

rrMaster

UK. Herts

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No, go back and read one of Colins posts on page 3

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02-03-2007 11:07 PM  10 years agoPost 180
darkfa8

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Brick, NJ - USA

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Colin,

with the elimination of the flybar system, how does main blade selection become more or less critical to the helis performance/stability, etc?

- Dan Goldstein
Team Revolectrix

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HelicopterFlybarless Rotor Head SystemsOther › Prototype CSM Flybarless System test.....Update
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