RunRyder RC
 63  Topic Subscribe
WATCH
 26 pages [ <<    <     22      23     ( 24 )     25      26     NEXT    >> ] 52368 views
Scorpion Power Scorpion Power
HelicopterFlybarless Rotor Head SystemsOther › Prototype CSM Flybarless System test.....Update
08-06-2007 10:29 PM  10 years agoPost 461
RussD

rrVeteran

UK

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Hi Tean,

Are you using the V-Stabi or CSM system?

Russ.

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
08-07-2007 11:47 AM  10 years agoPost 462
tean

rrApprentice

Gloucestershire,UK

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Hi Russ,
I'm using the CSM system with the Mikado Vbar head. For starters I basically used your settings from the RealRaptors Knowledge base. These have been working fine and have proved a good base from which to tweek and explore from. So far I've only had one full day's flying with it, but it's already way better anything else I've flown. The cyclics are incredibly quick and much more accurate than before; for example, in an elevator tumble I can see the tail rotor perform a perfectly circular arc around the body which I have never been able to get before. So far I've had no hint of anything unpleasant apart from a bit of a tail wag during aileron flips which I beleive is due to the tail gyro being too softly mounted on the CSM pads.

For those of us who are old enough to remember mechanical gyros and slow servos on slow revving tail rotors, think about the difference between them and a modern heading locked tail. Imagine that change applied to the cyclic and you'll get some idea what it feels like.

Logo14 Vbar, Logo500 CSM flybarless, Trex 600 CSM flybarless, 3DMP, Logo10, Lipoly, Mini T, .......

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
08-07-2007 12:06 PM  10 years agoPost 463
3D Heli Ireland

rrVeteran

Ireland

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Hey Tean thats an interesting test for the CSM system. Mikado have spent alot of time getting their mechanical set up right so the flybarless system can work to it's best, so that end will be right to begin with. So it is interesting to see (as a true comparison) how the two systems stack up against each other.

Alot of people are testing the CSM flybarless system now with great success, but where most are let down is on their mechanical helicopter conversion, to the flybarless set up, and not the electronic system at all. To get the mechanical side right requires some thought on most helis as they are not designed to be used in that configuration, so it is interesting to see how you are getting on with a 100% right mechanical setup.

I'm glad to hear you are having great success with the system.

David

Skookum Robotics,Sav�x, Motors and Servos,Optipower,SwitchGlo,CML st

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
08-07-2007 02:13 PM  10 years agoPost 464
tean

rrApprentice

Gloucestershire,UK

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I think the Mikado heads are very easy to convert because the mixing lever arangement naturally places the control point on the blade grips a long way out from the centre of the hub. This automatically reduces the throw when the levers are removed. After one day's flying with the Logo, I'm now looking at doing the Trex, but the different lever arrangement means that the control point of the grips is much nearer the hub centre so it'll porbably be necessary to retain the levers or mod/replace the grips.
It would interesting to compare the CSM and V bar systems on the same model, but not on my budget.

Logo14 Vbar, Logo500 CSM flybarless, Trex 600 CSM flybarless, 3DMP, Logo10, Lipoly, Mini T, .......

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
08-07-2007 04:40 PM  10 years agoPost 465
RussD

rrVeteran

UK

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Hi Tean,

Very pleased to hear you are gettting on well with the CSM system. If you encounter any probs or want to change anything, please let me know and i will do my best to help.

If you want to convert a T-Rex 600, Real Raptors has all the details on there site and there are some images in my gallery to give you a headstart on ideas.

RussD.

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
08-07-2007 05:51 PM  10 years agoPost 466
tean

rrApprentice

Gloucestershire,UK

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Thanks Russ,
I suspect the trick to this system is to do lots of reading up before you start so that you've got a good idea what to expect when you tweek things. With so many things to tweek, just blindly fiddling seems unlikly to give good results unless you're very lucky.

The pics in your gallery are very much what I was thinking for the Trex, and I've seen pics of Trevs conversion too. I prefer Trev's method of driving the swashplate because I fitted an asymetric driver from an Eolo on a Lipoly once and was horrified how much vibration it generated.

What do you think about shortening the mainshaft? Now that all the washout gubbins is gone it seems very tall. Shortening it would presumably reduce the pendulum effect and bring the c of g up closer to the rotor. The tail boom will get worried though.

regards
Andy

Logo14 Vbar, Logo500 CSM flybarless, Trex 600 CSM flybarless, 3DMP, Logo10, Lipoly, Mini T, .......

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
08-08-2007 02:08 AM  10 years agoPost 467
Wheelhaus

rrVeteran

Denver

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I shortened my Swift main shaft by about 20mm when I installed the V-Stabi, and I have never had a boom strike.

The Swift also has great head design to convert to flybarless since the grip ball link is directly inline with the main shaft. This makes it easy to align the phasing, and it also means the Delta 3 is completely neutral so the gyros decide 100% what to do instead of blade flapping and damper flex in forward flight changing the pitch.

..........
Dave

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
08-08-2007 06:04 PM  10 years agoPost 468
RussD

rrVeteran

UK

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

What do you think about shortening the mainshaft? Now that all the washout gubbins is gone it seems very tall. Shortening it would presumably reduce the pendulum effect and bring the c of g up closer to the rotor. The tail boom will get worried though.
Very much like Wheelhaus said no problems at all!

The more you stiffen the head up; the better the system seems to work and the less pendulum effect; the better the system appears to work. All of the current compromise (limitations) on the elevator function are induced via flexibility in the head / blades and pendulum effect. The more you reduce this... the faster you can make the model move on elevator ;-)

P.S: are you running TX 'cylic to gain' reduction mixing and of so what sort of values at what sort of stick position?

RussD.

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
08-08-2007 07:22 PM  10 years agoPost 469
tean

rrApprentice

Gloucestershire,UK

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Well I certainly don't need it to move faster. On the Logo I set up at +-10 degrees of cyclic and I would guess that about 50% dual rate is equivelent to the max flybarred cyclic. The last few flights I had were using 70% dual rate and it was very quick.
I've not set any cyclic to gain mixing yet as I'm still experimenting with slowly increasing the gain. I started at 60% and am now up to 85. Each time I up the gain it feels better, but I'm a bit nervous of what happens when the gain gets too high as I can't really picture what a "tail wag" will be like when it's on the cyclic.
I might setup some matchsticks of varying lengths on the boom and see which ones get knocked off. That should show the clearance and how much the shaft could be shortened.

Logo14 Vbar, Logo500 CSM flybarless, Trex 600 CSM flybarless, 3DMP, Logo10, Lipoly, Mini T, .......

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
08-08-2007 07:33 PM  10 years agoPost 470
J3DI

rrVeteran

Oswestry,​Shropshire. UK

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

tean, there was an interesting post on here a while back that would help seeing how close your blades come to the boom - i can't find the post though. Basically, a plastic tie-wrap around the boom, don't trim off the excess but have it pointing straight up. Then simply slide on a small length of fuel tube. Depending how far up you slide the fuel tube, if it is still there after a hard flight then you know the blades didn't come that close. If this doesn't make sense then maybe i could do a reconstruction of the pic?

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
08-09-2007 11:04 PM  10 years agoPost 471
dooooh!

rrApprentice

uk

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

just tried this system on my synergy tonight and it flys superb.
used the settings from real raptors website and i was away. i was doing tic tocs on my second flight with some autos thrown in for good measure. had to adapt my hyper performance blade grips to move
the ball and link away from the hub centre and i was away.
thanks to all for posting on this subject as it has taken all of the
guess work out of it. i now have a lighter heli with more power and agility.
cheers

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
08-10-2007 11:09 AM  10 years agoPost 472
robert_h

rrNovice

Germany

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

CSM-Flybarless-Howto's

My Roxxter 55 is ready to go flybarless.
First flight will be next week. Don't have the
time to read the whole thread. I am looking for the best
csm-flybarless-howto's available online.

kind regards
robert

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
08-10-2007 02:19 PM  10 years agoPost 473
cfranks

rrVeteran

Adelaide South​Australia

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Suggested CycLock setup as of 20th March '07
Suggested SL720 setup as of 20th March '07
Would some kind soul post the link to the above. I am completely unable to find them on the CSM website. I'm trying to get mine set up for a 3-blade vario 300C.

Thanks.

Charles

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
08-10-2007 02:27 PM  10 years agoPost 474
trvo

rrVeteran

Bognor Regis,UK,​Aurorra Ltd

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Here's details on all my settings (remove the dash between trex and tuning):

http://www.trex-tuning.com/csm-flybarless.php

Trev

-----
Trex 600e
Trex 600n
Aurorra Ltd, Align UK, Align Factory, CSM, Quick UK, Heli-Lessons

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
08-10-2007 07:38 PM  10 years agoPost 475
tean

rrApprentice

Gloucestershire,UK

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

RussD's notes are in his gallery as a word doc. These are what I used to get started.

Logo14 Vbar, Logo500 CSM flybarless, Trex 600 CSM flybarless, 3DMP, Logo10, Lipoly, Mini T, .......

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
08-10-2007 11:09 PM  10 years agoPost 476
cfranks

rrVeteran

Adelaide South​Australia

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Thanks a lot.

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
08-12-2007 08:36 PM  10 years agoPost 477
damaen

rrVeteran

Umeå, Sweden

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

My mechanical setup for the Trex 600 Flybarless using direct link CCPM:

I'm using 19.5 mm Futaba arms and have flipped the rear servo around.

Henrik

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
08-12-2007 09:39 PM  10 years agoPost 478
RussD

rrVeteran

UK

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Also a lot of info at http://www.realraptors.co.uk/

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
08-12-2007 09:41 PM  10 years agoPost 479
RussD

rrVeteran

UK

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Hi damaen,

Thats looks very good.... a whole lot simpler than mine!

Russ.

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
08-12-2007 10:18 PM  10 years agoPost 480
lovetofly

rrApprentice

Dallas, TX - USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

My setup is very similar to damaen, but I've also made a few barely noticeable changes with respect to ball link arm lengths on the swash to reduce the disparity between the collective and cyclic ranges. Also, my servo arms are just shy of 19mm.

Note also that I've flipped the blade grips upside down to make the swash movements "normal". demaen's arrangement will work fine but be backwards. (i.e. up swash will give neg collective, etc.)

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
WATCH
 26 pages [ <<    <     22      23     ( 24 )     25      26     NEXT    >> ] 52368 views
Scorpion Power Scorpion Power
HelicopterFlybarless Rotor Head SystemsOther › Prototype CSM Flybarless System test.....Update
 Print TOPIC  Make Suggestion 

 63  Topic Subscribe

Monday, November 20 - 9:46 am - Copyright © 2000-2017 RunRyder   EMAILEnable Cookies

Login Here
 New Subscriptions 
 Buddies Online