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Helicopter
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Blade
Other › Almost killed my on heli on DX6
11-23-2006 07:41 PM  11 years agoPost 21
oopsididitagain

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it sure is after having struck by the heli again when i accidently turn off the throttle hold while in idle up , lowest left stick. sigh so many things to check lol

is my method of blade tracking acceptable?

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11-23-2006 07:43 PM  11 years agoPost 22
Micro-Maniac

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Heh heh.

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11-23-2006 07:55 PM  11 years agoPost 23
oopsididitagain

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sad to say i've been struck so many times for my silly forgetfulness.

can you guys please let me know if the method that i use to track the blades are appropriate?..... or is it wrong?

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11-23-2006 08:48 PM  11 years agoPost 24
Micro-Maniac

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This is how I track my blades -

I either color each blade tip a different color so I can see which blade is doing what in flight - Or just guess at it and make or note distinguishing marks on each blade etc so I can tell them apart -

I hover the heli to see if the blades are tracking well and if not I try to distinguish which color or marked blade is tracking higher than the other -

Then I land the heli and switch to throttle-hold and center the throttle/collective stick and try to determine which blade is most neutral and adjust the other blade up or down depedending on how that particular blade was tracking - Have to guess if the blades aren't colored -

Once I determine which blade is closest to neutral I usually only adjust the other blade because I've found it doesn't take both blades being tracked away from neutral much for the pitch range to become non-linear to the point that the heli won't hardly climb in either upright or inverted - Only a couple full turns off really -

Don't forget to lower the throttle/collective stick before turning throttle hold off.

(looks like it's getting time to go stuff ourselves on this *evil white man day* )

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11-23-2006 08:52 PM  11 years agoPost 25
oopsididitagain

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oh shucks , i always track them with left stick on the lowest point. so it should actually be in mid stick normal mode? or idle up mode?

so adjust the blade that is not so neutral ( as in 0 pitch right?) , so raising the pitch of the lower blade will bring the blade higher correct?

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11-23-2006 08:53 PM  11 years agoPost 26
Micro-Maniac

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You should hover the heli to see how the blades are tracking each other - Doesn't matter much which mode really -

Find the blade that is closest to 0° pitch when the throttle/collective stick is centered with throttle-hold on and adjust the other blade to track with that one.

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11-23-2006 08:59 PM  11 years agoPost 27
oopsididitagain

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does that apply to all heli or only bcp to cp2 , cause i notice the cp2 rotorhead is really horrible to make tracking perfect. so u always adjust the one not so close to 0 and match it to the nearer to 0 pitch one?

it's still a little off , but i dont think it will cause anything bad thing to my flying will it?

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11-24-2006 02:09 AM  11 years agoPost 28
Micro-Maniac

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Yeah I think most people set one blade up perfectly with a pitch gauge and mark it and never adjust it again - Always adjust the other blade so the pitch range will remain linear and not get adjusted all out of whack.

It's really best to get the tracking as spot on as possible otherwise it'll cause drag and effect both lift performance and tail hold performance.

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11-24-2006 04:30 AM  11 years agoPost 29
oopsididitagain

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ok dokie got it captain. just cant understand how will bad tracking affect bad tail holding performance

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11-24-2006 05:21 PM  11 years agoPost 30
Micro-Maniac

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Because tail hold is "anti-torque" of the main rotor - If the main rotor isn't tracking well on these light little helis then the blades are creating drag and spoiling it's own air which causes the heli to torque erratically making it harder for the tail rotor to do it's job of anti-torquing - The smoother and less torquey the main rotor is the easier the tail rotor's job to hold an anti-torque -

The strange normal mode throttle curve I posted is also intended to make the tail rotor's job easier by using a smaller throttle range during actual flight so that the main rotor torque isn't changing much and having much effect on the tail rotor's job of anti-torquing -

More Throttle Changes = More Torque Changes = More Anti-Torque Changes to compensate -

Poor erratic lift performance and spoiled air also causes more torque changes which requires more anti-torque changes to compensate.

These little tail motors/rotors have to change speed to compensate the torquing of the main rotors and it takes time to change the speed of the tail blades so it's already difficult for the tail rotor to effectively compensate for even slow smooth torque changes - Faster and more erratic torque changes are even harder for the tail rotor to keep up with because the tail rotor can only change speed so quickly.

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11-24-2006 08:19 PM  11 years agoPost 31
oopsididitagain

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that is really detailed explanation thanks captain.

I mean how do u know the best rannge? what happens if u put throttle mid normal to say 90% or 75% , how does the heli re-act that you know you should decrease the range from mid to high throttle in normal mode?.....assuming high point is 100%

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11-24-2006 08:57 PM  11 years agoPost 32
Micro-Maniac

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I usually make my idle-up throttle curve all out 100-100-100 as I don't know of any ill effects of overspeeding an electric motor so this acts like a governor to keep the head speed as fast and constant as reasonably possible which helps prevent bogging during pitch and cyclic changes which in turn dramatically changes the main rotor torque and puts more workload on the tail system to compensate for it all -

Some People still use a V curve in idle-up like 100-85-100 which still keeps the head speed changes within a small range - The normal mode throttle curve I posted is matched similarly to such an idle-up V curve so the heli doesn't behave much differently between normal mode and idle-up mode -

As I mentioned before - Myself and many other people really only use normal mode for spooling-up the heli and then do all our actual flying in idle-up - But we can still have the best of both worlds (normal mode spool-up and idle-up stability) in the normal mode throttle curve by getting the heli spooled up from stopped to our prefered head speed within the lower half of the stick range and then not have much throttle change at all within the upper half of the stick range where the heli is actually flying in normal mode -

I could run a normal mode throttle curve of 0-100-100 and the upper actual flying range would match my 100-100-100 idle-up curve and offer the ultimate stability - But 0-80-100 is close enough and still provides good stability if/when I do actually fly in normal mode -

One could also run a lower head speed in normal mode with decent stabilty just by keeping the throttle changes to a minimun like 0-50-75 or 0-60-60 - But the lower the head speed the more dramatically pitch and cyclic changes will bog the motor causing further torque changes - Switching from a low normal mode head speed to a high idle-up head speed can bea bit violent too - Electric motors also work more efficiently at or near maximum RPMs so that's even more reason to run higher throttle curves.

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11-24-2006 10:09 PM  11 years agoPost 33
oopsididitagain

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man , i think a lot of bcp owners goin into comp tx can learn a lot from here especially me.

how will the heli be like when the motor "bogs?" , i only understand that terms on car engines but couldnt imagine how it would be on a electric motor.

thanks a bunch captain.

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11-25-2006 12:58 AM  11 years agoPost 34
Micro-Maniac

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When the motor bogs the heli loses power and overall stability - The specific effects will depend on the situation and how badly it's bogged - Bogging too much while inverted can cause the rotor to slow so much the heli will wobble and the blades will hit the tail boom without the centrifugal force of the head speed and the heli will self-destruct - I've done this many times -

BTW - Poor tracking can cause faster more severe bogging because of the additional drag it creates.

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11-25-2006 01:17 AM  11 years agoPost 35
oopsididitagain

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well maybe it's by experience but is there any way a rookie can identify if the heli is bogging caused by the motor? other than the throttle curve , what else can effect bogging? gear mesh etc?

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11-25-2006 01:19 AM  11 years agoPost 36
Micro-Maniac

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Bogging is not caused by the motor itself - The motor is bogged by other means such as tight gear mesh or using too much collective pitch and cyclic pitch together at once (both sticks at extreme deflection at the same time - collective pitch + cyclic pitch = a whole lot of blade pitch) which is the most common cause of bogging.

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11-25-2006 01:35 AM  11 years agoPost 37
oopsididitagain

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hence that will make the heli to lose power and lose altitude immediately?......if it is not caused by the motor why does the transition of throttle curve range affect it?

pardon me that i have so many questions in this thread.

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11-25-2006 01:42 AM  11 years agoPost 38
Micro-Maniac

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Because blade pitch creates air resistance on the blades and so can bog the motor -

When the blade pitch is neutral 0° the blades slip through the air with no air resistance at all as they are not deflecting any air and not putting much load on the motor -

But increase the blade pitch to like 10°+ and they are angled to the air they are passing through experiencing resistance as they deflect the air they are passing though creating more load on the motor and potentially bogging the motor.

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11-25-2006 01:47 AM  11 years agoPost 39
oopsididitagain

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man there is so much to understand from this thread that can make my setup knowledge to almost perfect =).

captain: i have a problem too with one of the blade grips. It does not rotate freely but have some resistance to it. heli still flies fine but on the other side it spins freely. I already did the collective fix, do u know if there might be something i should look at first before flying again with one grip having quite a bit of resistance to it?

I always use blue-loctite on the feathering shaft when installing it back but some problems is when i do crash and have to reassembly , the washer , bearings sometimes have some old loctite residue , i tried my best to clean it off with a needle but not much help. do u have any suggestion to do it?

thanks a lot

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11-25-2006 01:55 AM  11 years agoPost 40
Micro-Maniac

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Probably need new bearings - I never use threadlock on the feathering spindle - I just get 'em tight - I've never had a bolt back out of it yet -

I've gone through several bearings on my other heli trying to threadlock 'em to a shaft and end up getting some in the bearings and ruining 'em and have to pull it apart and start over with fresh bearing(s).

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