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HelicopterOff Topics › Anyone have any Reef tanks?
11-26-2006 10:33 PM  11 years agoPost 341
Luckylandings

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Oregon USA

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Well, when I bought the fluval canister filter, it was for my Seahorse tank. There are no live rocks in it. To many things that can hurt a seahorse that come along with live rock.. I just decided to try one on my 55 reef while I was at it. Can always use it as a back up for the horses anyway. But now you have me worried if may just be dumping nitrates back into their tank also!.. Ironic you bring up reef central again. The guy that told me to get one was on reef central, and ownes a whole damn seahorse farm.lol That's why I asked earlier to explain. Getting hard to trust just someones word..ha! Sad but true..
Do you really think it is doing any harm to my reef? I may just leave it on until I get more live rock. Have lots, but not sure if it is enough to keep the nitrates at 0 on their own just yet.. Thanks

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11-26-2006 11:16 PM  11 years agoPost 342
merlin3

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dayton, ohio

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You can always set up a mini refugium on your tank and keep the fluval. the refugium will help get rid of any nitrates that you may have.

Justin - Team Horizon, Team Byron
2-700x, Trex 700n, small helis

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11-26-2006 11:43 PM  11 years agoPost 343
wakeboarder2342

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USA

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pics not working! let me try again

favorite quote, no honey thats the same helicoptor i have always had

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11-27-2006 03:57 AM  11 years agoPost 344
Luckylandings

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Oregon USA

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You can always set up a mini refugium on your tank and keep the fluval. the refugium will help get rid of any nitrates that you may have.
Yeah, I have been wanting to set up a sump anyway. Just not sure how to plumb it yet. And I know I can build one cheaper than they sell them. Odd thing is, I just got off the phone awhile ago with an older guy that has been in SW for about 35 years. He does not sell anything, so he has no reason to BS me. He does do home to home up keep in his spare time, but he knows I do my own.. And he told me the same thing the LFS did. He did mention a sump, but he said the first thing I should have gotten was the canister filter. He said you can still control your nitrates. And you never clean your filter. It suposably will become a refugium so to speak of its own. It will release live bacteria back into your system as needed and feed your tank. Guess I will find out for myself now that I have one anyway. I have plenty of test kits...

______________

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11-27-2006 04:13 AM  11 years agoPost 345
wakeboarder2342

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USA

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Sorry but that dude is full of crap!

there is no scientific evidence to support what he is saying. However there is plenty to support what i am saying.

just post a question on reefcentral and ask if you should use a canister filter on a reef and see what they say.

again there is more then one way to skin a cat but i can guarantee you that a canister filter will in no way control nitrates. nitrite or ammonia sure but not nitrates.

ive gotten some crappy advise myself from guys that have supposedly been keeping reefs for 35 years!!

ask to see some of their SPS coral growth, if they have good growth rates with SPS an have fish that are pushing a decade old then i would take what they have to say to heart! otherwise i would be very wary of what they say.

again reefcentral is your friend, youll get a lot more experianced answers then what you will get here on runryder!!

favorite quote, no honey thats the same helicoptor i have always had

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11-27-2006 06:21 AM  11 years agoPost 346
Luckylandings

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Oregon USA

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I would hope your wrong, but I know your right.. Maybe I should pull it back off the reef and just put it away for the seahorse tank. I kind of thought the same way. I think I even told Kokamo to ditch his filter and get a good skimmer awhile back. The I went and got talked into one myself! And my wife just pulled out a book by: Jim Fatheree that also says you need a filter with carbon and all kinds of cool looking reef pictures..lol She is trying to sell me on it to! Guess I could always ebay it to a fresh water guy..haha!

BTW: What temp do you run that tank? Just curious.. Thanks

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11-27-2006 12:21 PM  11 years agoPost 347
Kokamo

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Liberty Hill Tx

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Hey guys, I would like to chime in and tell you all that I have been running my tank from the very start with an Emperor 400 filer system. I do not have a sump or a skimmer. The only thing I have is a UV strilizer and my tank has been happy. I do not have any nitrate or nitrite problems. Last I checked, I had about 20ppm on the Nitrate and ZERO on the nitites. I do water changes every two weeeks as well. I have four fish and a pretty decent load of corals as well.

RCtaz has the exact same setup as I do along with another fellow reef keeper locally that has one of the best reef tank I have ever seen with the same setup.

Don't know how or why it's working, but it is.

Later guys,

Joe

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11-27-2006 02:32 PM  11 years agoPost 348
wakeboarder2342

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USA

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kokamo, my question wouldnt be is it working today, but how long has it been working and how long will it continue to work?

If you do a lot of water changes and have a low bioload you can probably get by witht the emporer hang on filter. I would highly doubt you could run a successuful tank long term with that setup but it is probably possible. the fact that you have 20ppm nitrates and are still doing bi weekly waterchanges shows something isnt working correctly.

With my setup i do near ZERO water changes. probably 1 or 2 a year of 20%. and i have ZERO nitrates ect.

as far as temp goes, i keep my tank at 78 degrees. I used to have a 4 or 5 degree fluctuation in the summer until i installed an aquacontroller which now turns my fans or heaters on with great precision.

favorite quote, no honey thats the same helicoptor i have always had

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11-27-2006 07:53 PM  11 years agoPost 349
Kokamo

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Liberty Hill Tx

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WB......
kokamo, my question wouldnt be is it working today, but how long has it been working and how long will it continue to work?
It has been working since the beginning of this thread. The tank has changed (bigger), but the setup has been the same.

I hate to be the one to argue, but I don't belive nitrates is what hurts the tank, it's nitrites (otherwise known as another form ammonia) is what does harm. IMO, 20ppm isin't very much. I know of a specific 7 gallon tank here locally with a pretty good bio load of two clowns and several corals that has well over 300ppm of nitrates and everything is doing perfect. They do water changes once every time they think about it (every two to three months prolly) and everything is happy as can be. It has the same setup I have except it dosent have a UVS. From what I am told, this tank is well over ten years old.

RCtaz can verify this little tank I am talking about. Based on the success of this particular tank, I am trying to mimic the outcome with my own tank. So far, I havent had any problems. I have lost a few corals, but it was only from the stress of the tank swap.

Basically, IMO, I think it's mostly a matter of personal prefrence. What I'm doing seems to be working perfect for me.

As I said before, I am not a pro at the salwater thing. What I have done and learned in the past 6 months has made my tank a success..........so far. I know a successfull tank is at least two years or more, but hey, I'm working on it.

Joe

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11-28-2006 03:30 AM  11 years agoPost 350
wakeboarder2342

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USA

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AHAHA

sorry i hate to laugh but you are dead wrong.

Study of basically biology and the nitrogen cycle will tell you that nitrite and ammonia are very rarely a problem in any system that is more then a month or 2 old. This is because denitrifiying bacteria grow on the surface of everything in your tank and break the ammonia down into nitrite and then the nitrite down into nitrate! nitrate cannot be broken down into anything else as it is the last chain in the nitrogen cycle so it builds up in a tank and then causes problems.

Fish can take quite high loads of nitrate, several hundred PPM isnt a problem, but try keeping some sensitive corals, im not talking mushrooms and leathers here!!

It is not a matter of personal preference, it is FACT. I have had guys swear by using under gravel filters in a salt water tank but after a year or 2 they WILL CRASH.

again check reefcentral, there are guys that are professional marine biolgists and i can assure you they have the science to back this stuff up, not just personal prefernece!

favorite quote, no honey thats the same helicoptor i have always had

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11-28-2006 03:31 AM  11 years agoPost 351
wakeboarder2342

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USA

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also 6 months or even 2 years is not successful IMO, i have had reefs setup for over 8 years with fish even older then that!!

2 years and tanks are just starting to get stabilized!!

favorite quote, no honey thats the same helicoptor i have always had

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11-28-2006 06:57 AM  11 years agoPost 352
Luckylandings

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Oregon USA

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Well this post is almost two years old, and I have the same black clownfish, Angel and fire hawk.. So something is working!

Eel was doing great also until he found the one way out of the whole damn tank.lol Poor guy. Had to peel the dude off the floor.. Anyway,

http://www.runryder.com/helicopter/t221756p1/

Wow time flies!

I have to admit, I would like to get more corals later though. So I guess things will have to change eventually. But I don't see why I cant just keep adding live rock as I go and just pull the plug on the filter if things start to look bad.. So far it has never looked better! Even the sand looks whiter. I am concerned about causing another mini cycle with it though..
But BTW: There is a reason I don't go to reef central.. I want to learn as I go and have fun doing it. Even if that means crashing a reef along the way. Have no desire to be an ocean biologist! .. Just a guy who likes salt water creatures. Pretty simple really..

___________

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11-28-2006 07:01 AM  11 years agoPost 353
Luckylandings

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Oregon USA

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BTW: Has anyone tried one of those inline heaters? I need something that my horses cant hitch their tails on. I read that they will just set there and don't know that they are cooking.. Ouch!!

________________

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11-28-2006 02:24 PM  11 years agoPost 354
wakeboarder2342

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USA

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But BTW: There is a reason I don't go to reef central.. I want to learn as I go and have fun doing it. Even if that means crashing a reef along the way. Have no desire to be an ocean biologist! .. Just a guy who likes salt water creatures. Pretty simple really
If that is the case then by all means keep doing what your doing!!!

Thats kind of like saying " i dont want any help setting up my heli for the first time because i want to learn myself and if that means crashing 100 times then so be it!!"

But once again its your dollar so you can spend it however you woudl like!!

I wish i had known about reefcentral when i started, i went through the following equipment when i first started with my 65 gallon tank over 10 years ago.

-emporor 400 power filter
- fluidized bed sand filter
- no live rock
- crushed coral substrate
- normal output florecent lighting
- 1 power head for circulation
- ehiem canister filter

i kept fish ok in this system as well as some softies, mushrooms ect.

however i was never able to keep any SPS which is what i was really after. Some of my corals would stay alive but most had poor color and never any real growth.

I then after finding reefcentral i upgraded to the following.

2 250 watt metal halides
3 90 watt VHO's
drilled the tank for a 20 gallon sump
added a protein skimmer
added a ton of macro algae to the sump
added 150lbs of premium figi live rock
added a tunze stream for 1600 gph of circulation
ran my return through a SCWD for wavemaking
added a calcium reactor

Once i did this i was able to keep anything i wanted and my tank went from a maintance headache to nearly no maintenance at all!! Almost ZERO algae growth and corals that would grow several inches per month. I also have 2 clams that i have now in my 180 that spent nearly 5 years in the 65 and grew from 2" to nearly 8"

Like i said, you can learn from the experiance of others or you can learn by trial and error. Again im not saying you cannot keep fish alive in your setup. It really just depends on what you are after. check out the tank of the month on reefcentral and that will give you the idea of optimal setups. all of the equipment i have listed in the top section is sitting in a box in my basement and has for years! i would have saved a TON of money if i had bought the right stuff the first time and not had to buy everything twice!!!

again my 2 cents, take it for what it is worth!!

favorite quote, no honey thats the same helicoptor i have always had

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12-01-2006 05:24 PM  11 years agoPost 355
Luckylandings

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Oregon USA

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A few new pix of the seahorse tank and a hospital / quartntine tank...

I have a few things moved around now. Like the light is mounted and I moved the heater and put a gaurd on it. But you get the idea.

I also now have them trained to eat from a food dish that I made.
They are messy eaters, and this makes it a lot easier to clean out the uneaten mysis.. It took some time, but they are both eating from it now!

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12-27-2006 06:24 AM  11 years agoPost 356
Kokamo

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Liberty Hill Tx

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Ok WB! I went ahead and did it......I put in a sump. Are you happy? J/k on the sarcasm!

I had one laying around and I decided to go ahead with it and put it on the system. The things I like about it......... easier to add R/O, easier to add chemicals/calcium/buffer ect,ect, easier to perform water changes.

The sump has been on for just about a month now and so far everything is doing well. I now have four filters instead of the single emperor 400 hang-on.(which I am still using) Water quality is somewhat better with quite a bit more clarity. Corals seem to be doing better, fish are happy and life is good. Still running 130 watts PC and 79 watts actinic and doing good. Every day I am off work, I like to turn on the MH for most of the day. I still have a heat issue when I keep it on all day, so I like to be able to watch it while I'm home. I need more fans I guess. I still need to do some work there. The tank stays a pretty steady 79 degrees day and night.

Here is a question for you guys.......... What is the desired on/off time of the lights? My settings.....

**Actinic ON @ 10:30AM~~~~OFF @ 10:00PM Total time = 12.5 hrs
**PC #1 ON @ 11:00AM~~~~OFF @ 8:00PM Total time = 9 hrs*
**PC #2 ON @ 11:30AM~~~~OFF @ 9:00PM Total time = 9.5 hrs*
**Blue Lunar ON @ 8:00PM~~~~OFF @ 3:30AM Total time = 7.5 hrs

{Both PC together are on for a total of 10 hrs}

This is what my timers are set at and so far, it is doing pretty good with absolutly no hair alge or any other types of growth OTHER than that green junk on the front glass every two or three days.

Here are some pix taken X-Mas Eve night.......

Cheers guys,

Joe

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12-27-2006 02:02 PM  11 years agoPost 357
wakeboarder2342

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USA

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Looking good!!

I think you will be happy with the stability from the extra water volume and lower nitrates from the sump. Do you have some calurpa growing in it? you really need a part of the sump with a regular light bulb on it with some macro, If you need some i will send you some if you want to pay shipping.

As far as the lighting goes it really doenst matter as the tank doenst know what time it is outside!! Just make it the same everyday. Peronally as i am home at night i like to see my tank in the evening so i have my lights on from about 10 am to about 10pm.

favorite quote, no honey thats the same helicoptor i have always had

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12-27-2006 03:37 PM  11 years agoPost 358
Kokamo

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Liberty Hill Tx

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WB.....
Do you have some calurpa growing in it?
No I don't, can you please explain what it is and what it does.
with some macro, If you need some i will send you some if you want to pay shipping.
I might be interested, what is macro?

Keep in mind the sump is new to me and the tank. I don't really know the lingo and the things to put in it just yet. Still learnin'!
Peronally as i am home at night i like to see my tank in the evening so i have my lights on from about 10 am to about 10pm.
I agree. I like to come home and relax for a while simply looking at the tank. I usually hit the sack around 10 or so on average. Sounds like we have about the same amount of lighting. (time wize)

Thanks,

Joe

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12-27-2006 05:51 PM  11 years agoPost 359
wakeboarder2342

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USA

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Calurpa is a type of macro algae. Basically they are plants that grow underwater. So what you do is partition off a peice of your sump *so the plants dont get sucked into your return pump* and place a bunch of macro in there along with a small lightbulb that is on 24 hours a day. This makes the plants grow which then like all plants pull nitrates out of the water for food. This starves your tank of nitrates which keeps other algae from growing.

You then periodically pull the macro algea out of the sump and throw it away or feed it to your tangs ect.

This along with a good protein skimmer should be your only forms of filtration on a reef tank.

For reference here is a link to my old 65 gallon setup that i had in operation for nearly 9 years!!

notice on the sump you will see i partitioned the middle section off with plexiglass and it is full of calurpa macro which is a bit hard to see.

Also take note of the small light directed at the sump as your calurpa needs light to grow.

http://www.geocities.com/jamesbreef/setup.html

favorite quote, no honey thats the same helicoptor i have always had

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12-27-2006 10:03 PM  11 years agoPost 360
playfair

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Rochester, NY

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**Actinic ON @ 10:30AM~~~~OFF @ 10:00PM Total time = 12.5 hrs
That's 11.5hrs by my math

In the tropics, there's pretty consistantly 12 hours of sunlight (a little more of daylight due to the atmosphere).
My actinics are on for 12, my halides for 10-11.

I light the macro in the sump on the "reverse" cycle; 12 hours over night. Plants grow the most when they are in the dark from what I remember. Plus, it helps to stabilize pH swings.


The sky is our canvas

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HelicopterOff Topics › Anyone have any Reef tanks?
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