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HelicopterAntiques or Out of Business › Heading Hold Gyros on oldies
03-12-2006 10:45 PM  11 years agoPost 1
Zilly

Veteran

UK

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I am just about to recieve my Schluter Helibaby and am keen to understand if there is any problem running a Heading hold Gyro such as the CSM 200?

My plan is to upgrade bits of this heli to try and improve its flying characteristics any other suggestions would be welcome?

z

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03-13-2006 02:31 AM  11 years agoPost 2
Heli-star

Senior Heliman

South Jersey

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Heli-baby

Keep it simple, and keep it org. I have 2-Heli-baby's no collective, no gyro, and a good hover is all I want. ? would you want to fly it around and crash it????????????
Bob Buff.

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03-13-2006 05:55 AM  11 years agoPost 3
jczankl

Key Veteran

AZ

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I test flew my Heli-Star today with a Heading Hold Gyro. Not buy choice but it was the only gyro I had laying around. It will not hurt the helicopter at all. I flew it in non heading hold. And switched to Heading hold. So it is ok. But for me I like to keep it Original so soon as I find a good old gyro I will be taking my 401 off. But for now I just wanted the pleasure of seeing my first heli fly all over again.

GAUI/Empire
Spinblades
PowerMaster Fuels
Graupner
Castle Creations
Scorpion Motor

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03-13-2006 07:55 AM  11 years agoPost 4
Zilly

Veteran

UK

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HeliStar,

I am afraid I fully intend to fly it as I would not have it taking up space in my shed if it was not going to be flown, I know its an oldie however in this case I want to see how an oldie can be improved whilst not detracting from the original look of the model so I will make sure any changes are not visible.

Kind of like fitting coil spring suspension and electronic ignition to an old classic car.

As for not wanting to crash well its no differentfrom my other heli (MA Stratus) in that I don't want to crash it (hence fitting a gyro) however if it goes in I will source parts and repair it. I know where I can buy another if it were a really bad crash!!

z

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03-13-2006 08:24 AM  11 years agoPost 5
DenisS

Key Veteran

england

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I've put a CSM 180 in mine, I have a Futaba 154 or two, and a Quest which is more in keeping, timewise, but so are 128 servos and I wouldn't fit them in to anything nowadays. I bought four new 3003s as these should be more reliable.
We can have a drag race at Charmouth with them if you like.
Denis

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03-13-2006 05:56 PM  11 years agoPost 6
GMPheli

Elite Veteran

W. Bridgewater, MA USA

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You may have a problem with tail wag, or wire breakage problems if you have a tail wire drive. This is because the wire is flexible to some degree and can wind up when a big load is put on it (like a hh gyro can and will do). I have a HH gyro in my GMP Competitor, but I have converted it to torque tube

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03-13-2006 06:19 PM  11 years agoPost 7
853633

Heliman

Harpursville, NY USA

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You may have a problem with tail wag, or wire breakage problems if you have a tail wire drive. This is because the wire is flexible to some degree and can wind up when a big load is put on it (like a hh gyro can and will do). I have a HH gyro in my GMP Competitor, but I have converted it to torque tube
I have found out that I have an old MFA Sport 500 (my 1st chopper), I believe I have a tail wire drive system, and have been strongly advised to install a gyro, what do you suggest for a gyro? also, where would I get info on upgrading to a torque tube system? my chopper had a fox .40 when i got it, but the motor was locked up, so I modified the motor mount to fit my thunder tiger .46, so tail wind up is a consern...

Thanks

Tony Z

Tony Z

Crash Test Pilot

"I'm not crazy, I'm in recovery!"

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03-13-2006 06:44 PM  11 years agoPost 8
DenisS

Key Veteran

england

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The CSM 180 is not a heading hold, and if you use a standard servo that is not too high a speed then the wind up should not be a problem (unless you want to do 540 stall turns, high speed backwards flight etc) You could look for a second hand mechanical gyro if you are that worried but I really don't think that converting to torque tube is going to be necessary or cost effective.
That is my opinion, but bear in mind I have never been wrong
Denis

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03-14-2006 12:01 AM  11 years agoPost 9
GMPheli

Elite Veteran

W. Bridgewater, MA USA

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Any inexpensive gyro such as the CSM 180 will be fine. You probably could run heading hold if you turn the gain way down. Just don't be surprised if sometime down the road the wire breaks on you. As you are just learning I really don't think you need a torque tube. You would have to adapt one from another model anyways. Finding parts for either the Schluter or the Sport 500 will be a challenge.

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03-14-2006 12:20 AM  11 years agoPost 10
853633

Heliman

Harpursville, NY USA

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Ok guys, slow down, still new to choppers...
GMPheli


CSM 180 will be fine. You probably could run heading hold if you turn the gain way down. Just don't be surprised if sometime down the road the wire breaks on you
To coin an old phrase from a tv show, "WHAT you talking about, Willis?"


Tony Z

Tony Z

Crash Test Pilot

"I'm not crazy, I'm in recovery!"

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03-15-2006 06:12 PM  11 years agoPost 11
GMPheli

Elite Veteran

W. Bridgewater, MA USA

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Tony:

Heading hold gyros use a microcomputer and a sensor that knows where it is at all times. It takes over control of the tail rotor servo and does whatever it has to do to get the tail to do whatever you are commanding it to do. A non heading hold gyro is kinda dumb. It just senses a rotation and puts in a opposite command to somewhat counter it. A heading hold gyro stresses the tail drive components much more than a non HH one. It is for this reason that a wire drive is marginal for HH gyros. In my last post, I was talking about the tail drive wire breaking. Hope this helps.

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03-15-2006 06:30 PM  11 years agoPost 12
BarracudaHockey

rrMaster

Jacksonville FL

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Interesting point. I have a spare 401 and was planning on using it in the Kavan Jet Ranger I'm about to build. I've heard that the wire drive is a weak point in that system anyways.

Thanks for the food for thought.

Andy
AMA 77227
http://www.jaxrc.com

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03-15-2006 06:39 PM  11 years agoPost 13
853633

Heliman

Harpursville, NY USA

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GYRO

I e-mailed Hobby Lobby, even though thay don't have parts for MFA sport 500, thay suggest there Ikarus Gyro above all others, any ideas people?
Thanks,

Tony

Tony Z

Crash Test Pilot

"I'm not crazy, I'm in recovery!"

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03-15-2006 06:52 PM  11 years agoPost 14
Colin Mill

Veteran

England

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I don't think you need to be too concerned about using HL on old machines. The big tail drive breakers are the fast stops which you can get with a conventional gyro.

Also, as for the wire drive its a good idea to fit extra wire guides because the wire wind up effect is not caused by the wire twisting when it is held out straight but when it whirls out of line and winds into a helix. In this way its tortional stiffness is much reduced.
If you fit extra guides the problem virtually disappears.

Best regards

Colin (CSM)

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03-15-2006 07:05 PM  11 years agoPost 15
853633

Heliman

Harpursville, NY USA

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CSM 180

I think I may try the csm 180, but where to buy it, and how much is the cost? Will i need to modify my servo mounts againe (seeing I didn't have any - I had to cut into the main frame with a dremmel tool to install the servos)?

Tony Z

Crash Test Pilot

"I'm not crazy, I'm in recovery!"

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03-15-2006 10:12 PM  11 years agoPost 16
GMPheli

Elite Veteran

W. Bridgewater, MA USA

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Well there ya go! Straight from the HH gyro inventors mouth. I was actually quite surprised at how much you can easily wind up a wire drive tail just by holding the main gear and turning the tail rotor. Tony you can get the CSM 180 at most any good heli store. I would recommend Ricks. There is a link there from Runryders home page.

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03-17-2006 02:01 AM  11 years agoPost 17
853633

Heliman

Harpursville, NY USA

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CSM SL320 gyro

The CSM SL320 gyro is a Heading Lock/Rate gyro, and is ideal for entry level pilots wanting an easy to use, affordable gyro that is of the Heading Lock and Rate variety. The SL320 features a dual-remote gain for easy setup. Designed for use with Standard servos. Ideal for use in all 60-91 Helis.
With all the choices for Gyro's I am confused....
The CSM G180 lite gyro is a Rate gyro, and is ideal for entry level pilots wanting an ultra light,easy to use, and affordable gyro that is not of the Heading Lock variety. The G180 features a single, non-remote gain for easy setup. Ideal for use in all 30-50
Very confused...
The CSM SL560 Smart Lock gyro is a Micro version of the standard SL560. The SL560 Micro is both a Heading Lock/Rate gyro, and is ideal for intermediate to experienced pilots wanting an easy to use, affordable gyro that is of the Heading Lock and Rate variety. The SL560 features a dual-remote gain for easy setup, and also features a PC Interface for the experienced pilot wanting to maximize performance. The SL560 also offers both High/Standard frame rate selection so it can be used with either Standard or Digital servos. Ideal for all 30-91
futaba GY401

Delivers high performance for 30- to 60-size helis


Has remote gain feature and transmitter-controled switching to AVCS


Operation is almost 4 times faster (270Hz) than conventional gyros


Measures 1" x 1" x 0.8" (27 x 27 x 20 mm), and weighs 0.95 oz (27 g)


GY401 Manual
Stock Numbers:
FUTM0807 GY401
FUTM0808 GY401 Heli Gyro w/S9254
futaba G190 Piezo Mini Gyro
Gyros FAQ
Advanced technology in a super-small size.
High-density assembly allows the G190 to be extremely compact and lightweight making it ideal for today's small electric heli models!

The newly designed case can be mounted on any side for correct orientation in applications where there is limited space.
When used with a micro servo such as the S3108 (sold separately), total weight is kept to a minimum.
SPECIFICATIONS
Stock Number: FUTM0830
Length: 0.87" (22.2 mm)
Width: 0.90" (22.8 mm)
Height: 0.35" (8.9 mm)
Weight 0.24 oz (6.8 g)
Operating voltage: 4.8 to 6.0VDC
Current drain: 15mA at 4.8V
Someone should make a "How to buy a Gyro" book, for Idiots..

Tony Z

Crash Test Pilot

"I'm not crazy, I'm in recovery!"

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03-17-2006 06:28 AM  11 years agoPost 18
853633

Heliman

Harpursville, NY USA

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When all else fails, go to e-BAY!

Description (revised)

Item Specifics - Radio Control Parts & Accessories
Type: Airplane Parts Brand: --
Sub-Type: gyro Condition: Used
Fuel Source: --


e-BAY LINK

ITEM DESCRIPTION:


Gorham Model Products Rate Gyro

with JR/Futaba connectors for helicopter or aircraft.

Purchased from a friend to use in a ducted fan project but was never required.

Tested ok, however it has been sitting for a couple years, no reserve and a very low starting bid, sold as is.

Condition of Auction:

Please read description of item. Do not assume things that are not stated. I try to be honest in my item descriptions. If you have questions about an item please contact me via eBay's Contact Seller feature before bidding. I generally respond within 24 hours.
Well folks, this it what I decited on for a gyro, I hope its a good one... click to see e-BAY auction purchase

Tony Z

Crash Test Pilot

"I'm not crazy, I'm in recovery!"

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03-17-2006 10:54 AM  11 years agoPost 19
Zilly

Veteran

UK

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

hmmmm at $5 you can't really go wrong however if you find this is not up to the job try one of the CSM gyros I have just bought a HL200 which is a very simple Heading Hold Gyro.

I bought mine off ebay for about $30

z

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04-04-2006 12:21 AM  11 years agoPost 20
GMPheli

Elite Veteran

W. Bridgewater, MA USA

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Stole this post from another thread. Post is by GM1


HH

A while back, we started putting HH gyros in the older X-Cells with the wire drive tail. We had almost no success as the wire would wind up, load and unload, and it drove the gyro nuts. When we installed a tube drive, easy to do on an X-Cell, the HH gyro worked perfectly.
Just an observation.
Gordie

On a dog sled team, if you're not the lead dog, the view never changes.

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HelicopterAntiques or Out of Business › Heading Hold Gyros on oldies
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