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HelicopterOff Topics › Iran.. Your soulution???
03-07-2006 07:07 AM  11 years agoPost 81
Gadgets

rrApprentice

South Africa

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Its been a while:

I almost don’t want to bring this up again, as there some who will just post their crap again (now I guess I am asking for it), but...

leslieodell
"i beleave there is a higher life after death"
So what do you think is your standing/ranking in the after life?

DanC
I read through the wikipedia link, and it supports what I said!?!

I never though that kaffir is derived from Kuffar. It is a term created in South Africa. It has the same taste of "koolee" or "nigger". I would like to note that there is no racism in Islam. Any racism that exists is man made.

Further, yes I "glossed" over everything. You are already quite learned in the subject Islam; I figured that you already know quite a bit more than I wrote. If anyone wants more depth, they would have to really study the religion, Quraan, etc. I can’t take my 30 years of teaching and cram it into even a 100 posts.

I would like to take this opportunity to remind you guys that this is my way of life. I do debate the understanding, but not a mere subject matter. If I do question, I have to realize the consequences of my actions. I also don’t try to perfect my Iman/Islamic understanding to wield it as a weapon against those of other religion.

I agree with you guys that many men have used religion for their own gain. I would like to point out that I have not gone out and taken arms against anyone.

Spaceman

We (Muslims) believe in all the Prophets up to Muhammed (PBUT). Any one who is Muslim would not think of slurring any Prophet. I read through what you asked, and I hear you. Yes you are my brother. I have no wish to harm you at all. The Israeli/ Palestinian Issue is far removed from being about religion in my opinion. Further, I don’t know that we share the belief of Israel being the original place.

This is a tough one. You will quote Jewish belief and I Islamic. I don’t know a solution there. I am sorry Spaceman; if I were a politician I may have been able to swing an answer.

I for one refuse to use religion as a weapon, or political tool. I will be a Muslim (and strive to be a better one) in all my dealings.





I see plank flyers!!!

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03-07-2006 01:00 PM  11 years agoPost 82
Gadgets

rrApprentice

South Africa

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Interesting!,

so no matter what you do here or how you treat people, it wont matter?

You will still have the best in the afterlife, same as every one else.

Including the likes of Hitler?





I see plank flyers!!!

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03-07-2006 01:14 PM  11 years agoPost 83
Gadgets

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South Africa

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Ok very interesting.

So the after life would be better, AND btw would it be eternal?

If so (NOT that I am promoting suicide), why not just go there. forget the lights etc.





I see plank flyers!!!

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03-08-2006 06:47 AM  11 years agoPost 84
Gadgets

rrApprentice

South Africa

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Hmmmmmm!

Leslie, sound as though you fear the unknown...

Do you 3D?





I see plank flyers!!!

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03-08-2006 09:24 AM  11 years agoPost 85
Dan C

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Barnsley, Yorkshire

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not long ago there was a TV program in the UK about Iran and supposidly the first susicide bomber.

It was a child soldier of 13 or so who during the iran/iraq war basically picked up sachel of explosives etc and ran up to bmp that was about kill all the others he was with ( something like that either the position had been overrun or similar) and destroyed the iraqies.

Anyway he was then held up as example to all devoted Iranians defending the mother land etc. I am guessing this was sort of entwined into religion and nationalism during a bitter war and became a supposidly valid way of waging war.

I can't help feel it was an act of unthinking desperation from child desperate to help those he cared for.

If this was the first islamic suicide bomber I wonder how many of recent crazies know of it origins. Must be a shock to find that they followed a child into folly, Certainly I bet the Qur'an doesn't say follow a desperate child who doesn't know he going to hill himself.

http://www.spiked-online.com/Articles/0000000CACDF.htm
A link to follow

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03-08-2006 09:53 AM  11 years agoPost 86
Gadgets

rrApprentice

South Africa

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Dan I never knew the origins.
That was very informative.

I hope it come to local our channels





I see plank flyers!!!

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03-08-2006 06:49 PM  11 years agoPost 87
bagobitz

rrVeteran

saddleworth,lancs,UK

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gadgets - not to pick a fight, you appear to be an intelligent and educated man...so it puzzles me how...you accept that your prophets could say no wrong....but then you don't understand what they said,so you defer to an imam...who is a fallible human like you...but swallow whatever HE decides is an "interpretation"
you also blindly follow the doctrine that the prophet got their wisdom from (god?) yet spoke such a load of babble that even a bright bloke like you is unable to make sense of it ? you cannotput up a reasonable defence for the intolerance and thuggery practiced in the name of islam....get real..the way you treat your fellow man and your environment is what's important, not this dogmatic "my sh1t does'nt stink , cos i'm a (insert religious persuasion here) "

do you REALLY believe that "god" would waste effort on all these claimants to be the bearer of the truth ? NO ...you are grasping at straws....life,creation ,the universe,are beyond the understanding of mere mortals.so stop wasting your life on religious hogwash and live in the manner you would like others to live.
we're all the same dead and we'll all find that out sometime...won't the religious zealots be sick then,having wasted so much energy on futile bullying and threats, trying to convert others to the true faith
you'd do more good by persuading these "religious leaders" to set an example by strapping bombs on and killing themselves..but tell them there's no virgins left as previous bombers have already had them...and besides,surely sha99ing virgins is surely against islamic law?

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03-08-2006 08:03 PM  11 years agoPost 88
spaceman spiff

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Tucson

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I read somewhere that the Koran says it is 72 white rasins, not virgins.

Just imagine the looks on thier faces when they find out. Hope it gives the horny little nit wits terrible gass for eternity.


Here's your rasins, eatem up. Keep away from the fire now.


Fun article:
http://www.theonion.com/content/node/46031

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03-09-2006 08:47 AM  11 years agoPost 89
Gadgets

rrApprentice

South Africa

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bagobitz

Quote "you accept that your prophets could say no wrong"

We believe that all actions of the Prophet were guided by Devine Intervention. If you want to know Muhammad’s (PBUH) character, read a few books written by secular historians, who write factually about his (PBUH) life. You will find that by example Muhammed led in all manners of life. Spirituality, commerce, family, war, etc...

Quote "but then you don't understand what they said, so you defer to an imam...who is a fallible human like you...but swallow whatever HE decides is an "interpretation""

I try to understand by myself, and then consult many pious learned people, (not ONE Imam only, read my bit on GURU's I wrote earlier). Yes even collectively we can still misinterpret, but we can benefit by resolving an issue as educated reasonable people. Allah said something about seeking knowledge from the cradle to the grave.

Muhammed (PBUH) was Illiterate and uneducated. Many secular scholars cannot see how Muhammed (PBUH) could come up with all he did on his own. We are entering into the realms of spirituality here, Just like I can’t materially prove the revelations exist, you can’t prove it does not exist.

Quote: ".life, creation, the universe, are beyond the understanding of mere mortals"

I am a Muslim, and I studied Mathematics/statistics. The makings of a philosopher (maybe)... There is so much out there that we can explain by the theories of mathematics etc, but we can’t see it. It is very hard to imagine existence without a creator. We then get to a point where we ask does Allah exist, and who made Allah... that’s a tough one. One philosopher discussed this we me in an interesting manner. He said...you can’t disprove Allah's (Gods) existence without being made. BUT we are all here so hence we are created and as laws govern us, there is the ultimate law maker.

Quote "you cannot put up a reasonable defense for the intolerance and thuggery practiced in the name of Islam....get real..the way you treat your fellow man and your environment is what's important, not this dogmatic "my sh1t does'nt stink , cos i'm a (insert religious persuasion here) ""

I am fortunate to be Educated in both religious and secular subjects. There are so many people out there that are not. They are brainwashed into thinking that what they do is right. Damn,,,, you, me and the rest of the educated world needs to do more to educate these people.

They believe their thuggery is done in the name of Islam, I don’t believe so (again read what I said about Guru's).

Quote: "live in the manner you would like others to live."...
I do! Read about Muhammed (PBUH) and the way he lived his life, there, is an example.

THE REST OF THE POSTS:

What’s with the Virgin stuff. I think non-Muslims are more pre-occupied with it than us. Yes the Quraan does talk about Jannat (Heaven) have 70 Virgins for good Muslim Men. It further goes on to say that your Wife (Wives) will be the Queens of your Jannat.

I have thought about this for a while and have NOT consulted any Imams.
I can’t quite get my head around why we are thought monogamy (and in certain cases polygamy) on earth, and rewarded with 70 Virgins. While Islam rules that we believe in the Unseen, I think we have to perfect our Iman in this world first and not just dream of what we are getting in Jannat.

We are thought (and many of you agree) that this world is temporary. Jannat / heaven / paradise is eternal. It is better to strive for the eternal.





I see plank flyers!!!

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03-09-2006 11:10 AM  11 years agoPost 90
bagobitz

rrVeteran

saddleworth,lancs,UK

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gadgets..you're STILL way off -beam..if this bloke's (yes, he was a mere mortal too! ) "divine guidance" was so good, you'd think that the divine almighty all powerful creator would have the intelligense to "program" this illiterate, delusional half-wit to give a CLEAR and UNAMBIGUOUS message to the rest of the illiterate creations.
anyway, why would "it"bother with some incoherent thicko?? NO, IF the "GOD" of your imagination existed, it would communicate with ALL it's creations equally....(but you believe in elitism and delude yourself that you're one of that elite! )
you're conning yourself and this sycophantic "pboh" business is symptomatic of the religious cult mumbo-jumbo crap that surrounds all organised religions.
If you're such a devout believer, Isuggest to you ,that your way forward is to re-read Mac-Man's post on P3..very carefully...then get you and your "brothers"off your collective self-righteous,pious asses and root out and publicly DENOUNCE these terrorist ,murdering scum. whilst you continue to harbour them under the cloak of "islam" and"moslem" you will continue to alienate the whole rest of the world.
as someone wisely said, it only needs good men to stand by, for evil to flourish. or words to that effect.
educated ,you may be, but logic and commonsense are sadly lacking.sorry,mate, you don't earn my respect yet.

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03-09-2006 11:45 AM  11 years agoPost 91
roys55

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USA

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The idea of getting any number of virgins when a person dies is just as stupid as the rest of that philosophy. It just a way of controlling weak minded people.

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03-09-2006 01:44 PM  11 years agoPost 92
zoom boy

rrKey Veteran

N.E. Lincolnshire UK

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The idea of getting any number of virgins when a person dies is just as stupid as the rest of that philosophy. It just a way of controlling weak minded people.
Yep.

Offering sex as an afterlife, oh how elightend and how holy.

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03-09-2006 07:03 PM  11 years agoPost 93
Isaac F

rrKey Veteran

Panama Republic of Panama

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The following link will show you a film clip of Arab-American Psychologist WAFA SULTAN on Al-Jazeera TV - 2/21/06. It is a must see!


http://switch3.castup.net/cunet/gm....1050wmv&ak=null


The link that follows is for Memri TV which has many film clips having to do with the Muslim world. It should prove to be a good source of information for those of you who want to keep on top of what's going on in Muslim Land! You can see also that they already have submarines.

http://www.memritv.org/

Speed of light is greater than speed of sound. Some people seem very bright until U hear them speak

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03-10-2006 10:11 AM  11 years agoPost 94
Gadgets

rrApprentice

South Africa

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bagobits

You really need to tell me what you believe in so that I can respond. It sounds as though you do not believe in GOD, please explore and explain.

Your persistence in derogatorily referring to the Prophet Muhammed (PBUH), me and my religion, tells me that I may never be able to win your respect. I can hope for understanding between us though.

Please I am attempting sincerity, not elitism if my correspondence so far indicates any elitism please let me know so that I can explain and apologies. This too is a tough one, as culture etc, can be misinterpreted. Please bare that in mind. I have not yet marked you as rude, for saying thing like: "delusional half-wit" or "incoherent thicko". You obviously did not yet try to understand the nature of this leader and what others have said about him.

I read through Mac-Mans post, and I see the problem. Would you like that we jump around in the streets so that it makes it to the news, or may we continue teaching tolerance.

Tolerance for others, so that we can accept their view the way our Prophet did (PBUH).

While explaining yourself, please also discuss the common sense and logic I am lacking.

THE VIRGINS
Guys re-read what I said about the virgins. Who is pre-occupied by them? I intend on a thorough understanding of that aspect. give me time.

Isaac,
Thanks for the link; I hope bandwidth allows that I can view some of the reports.





I see plank flyers!!!

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03-10-2006 05:07 PM  11 years agoPost 95
bagobitz

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saddleworth,lancs,UK

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GADGETS..what i believe is totally irrelevant, the ISLAMIC RELIGION IS TOTALLY DISCREDITED,IN THE AVERAGE WESTENER'S EYES...yet you STILL persist in this PBUH crap, everytime you mention a WORD. THE BLOKE IS DEAD!!!! GET IT??? you're kow-towing to a CONJECTURE...you never even knew him, it's all hearsay to you,but you and your ilk sit idly by,wrapped up in your own self-righteous little dream-world,whilst these nutters hijack ANY respectability that your religion MAY have had.
by concealing these blackguards in your midst, you SHAME THE WHOLE OF ISLAM. WAKE UP!!!!!
That's why the westerners are turning against you, so you'd better learn to live in the west, by western rules...if that's not acceptable,France shows the way..."f-off to a country that WILL accept you and your culture.
Germany never obliterated the Jews, '39-45...islam won't do it with "the infidels" now....the Yanks are only pussyfooting around at the moment, so I suggest a long hard look at the way you shelter these violent extremists..if you persist in aligning yourselves with them, you'll have to take the consequences.

incidentally, I'm a heathen pacifist.

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03-10-2006 08:09 PM  11 years agoPost 96
Teufel-Hundin

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Saint Petersburg FL

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The Muslim religion is just now going through its crusades. The issue is the rest of the world got that out of their system long ago. I believe this has come down to ironically a Darwinian theory of religion: That which cannot adapt and evolve as conscious and logic evolve is doomed to predation and extinction.

That being said all religion should be a basis for belief that in an ever changing world can evolve and grow. If a religion is not allowed to do this it will fail as the rest of humanity grows.

To keep by religion a people in poverty, fear, uneducation, oppression of ones self and suppression of personal spiritual gain through deprivation of understanding is wrong.

The greatest atrocity is the 500 or 600 million "Nice Muslims" that sit by and do nothing. Police yourselves and the rest of the world won’t have to.

I don’t see Muslims in the streets protesting the individuals purveying these atrocities. You "good Muslims" say that these extremist are not following the Koran and are disrespecting it and your God and Prophets. If your God and Prophet are so important to you that you would die for them join the military and go fight the "bad Muslims" or is your conviction to your religion just rhetoric and hypocrisy. I mean you can't say "him" in reference to Muhammad without a "praise be" but people can besmirch his name through death and mayhem all day.

The radicals we are dealing with are using a Stone Age interpretation of a Stone Age teaching.

It will not end until they kill all of each other, all of us or are brought up by their bootstraps through education.

Knowledge and understanding can bring about a greater sense of humanity which is in short supply amongst these people we discuss.

As has been stated since you all chose to do nothing you are as guilty as those that are acting incorrectly. A very sour taste is being put in humanities mouth and soon without action on your parts all Muslim will taste the same. Complacency is compliance.

Do I believe most Muslim are good....Yes.
Do I believe most current terrorists are Muslim....Yes.

If I walked into an ally and 10 guys were standing over one dead guy that had a knife in his chest, one guy is screaming you were killed for our beliefs. Now I have to decide who is guilty. The 9 guys say I have similar beliefs but he is different it was just him don’t blame us. Then I say why were you just standing there why did you do nothing. If he was wrong and you believe you are right......
Everyone goes to jail.

Why do you want to profile people at airports. HMMMM dunno maybe because an 80 year old non Islamic grandmother from Georgia never killed a bunch of people in the name of religion. I encourage checking me it is a pain in the ass but I have nothing to hide.

Stop pontificating about how peaceful and loving your religion is and make that a reality.

You say that you can see you will not earn our respect.
Once you are ready to share the same blood and mud with those willing to stand up and "Just Say No" to religious genocide and terrorism we can talk till then sorry you have an unfortunately tough row to hoe.

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03-11-2006 10:35 AM  11 years agoPost 97
bagobitz

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saddleworth,lancs,UK

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Teufel-Hundin..an eloquent summary of what i've been trying to say all along.
glad to see that someone can get accross what the average "infidel"feels, without the encumbrance of a load of claptrap,rituals and politics.

Gadgets..you clearly are at a loss for a RATIONAL and INTELLIGENT reply to most of the points bought up in previous posts.
importantly...you hold life sacred,but are too arrogant or lazy to "educate"the non-believers.
you stated that your figurehead(muhammed) was illiterate,not of high intellect......yet he probably was an eloquent and charismatic con-man..to the simple people around him,he probably WAS a guru...and you're repeating the cycle. (look at Robert Maxwell in recent times)
you need to address what's missing in your life..trying to hide from it ,behind a shield of pious claptrap, is not the way forward.
RELIGION IS GUESSING THE UNKNOWABLE. we all have our idealogical beliefs (even me! "when you snuff it, you're dead" I can't prove it, and there's lots of circumstantial evidence to suggest otherwise, BUT I'm not concieted enough to believe that I know the answers, OR that the supreme being will be waiting for my words to it. Wo knows, If it exists, it could well be pretty p155ed -off that you are worshipping someone else's MEMORIES of a charismatic individual.
to my mind, religion is an excuse not to face the real world...that's why all practitioners CHOOSE THE ONE THAT SUITS THEM.

Oh, and the good religious local muslims....sex with white girls who are infidels. drink alcohol (vodka,doesn't smell) MANY smoke..how does that reconcile with keeping the body pure? typical, there's no negotiation, you EITHER believe,OR NOT. ..perhaps that's where your committee of guru's comes in - decide what it means, on the basis of what you would LIKE it to mean.

who finances it all? YOU!!!! yup, you're a punter being sold "enlightenment"by sharper pencils than you.
do the leaders live in the same squalor and poverty as their followers?..OF COURSE NOT....enough
just some of the reasons why the west is getting p155ed off by islam and it's extremists. if we can't have a peaceful world by agreement,the concensus of the majority is that the disruptive element should be exterminated.
as I said previously...France was vilified for refusing "moslem dress" in schools..BUT..their constitution states that religion is a PRIVATE belief..You are FRENCH,first and foremost...if you wish to be "Moslem " Catholic""Jew" "Buddhist" in public and push that on others, then leave france and go somewhere where that is the norm.
I object to "black tents" shuffling around our supermarkets(at least their "owners" have the courtesy to drag their"second-class"possesions
out after most europeans have gone to bed)
Women were NOT born covered-up this is yet another example of manipulative, abusive men using "religion "as an excuse for theirneanderthal behaviour.

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03-11-2006 08:37 PM  11 years agoPost 98
w.pasman

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Netherlands

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I don't think that the discussion about muslim is leading us anywhere

Some people live as muslim because it inspires them to live the right way
Some people live as muslim because their leader tells them so
Some people live as muslim because they have no choice to do otherwise
Some people say they are muslim because it gives them power to control people

So, being a muslim does not say very much.

You can just as well insert "christian", "jew" , "american" or whatever you like in the above.

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03-11-2006 11:49 PM  11 years agoPost 99
Helimon

rrApprentice

Washington

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Video

Thought I would lighten this up a bit.....
http://video.google.com/videoplay?d...661313510275113

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03-12-2006 12:44 AM  11 years agoPost 100
Dan C

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Barnsley, Yorkshire

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I really really hope that they are all playing along there and in on the joke

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Scorpion Power Scorpion Power
HelicopterOff Topics › Iran.. Your soulution???
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