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Elec-Helicopters New or Limited Activity
Zoom › Killed my Shogun Today!!
12-05-2005 01:35 AM  12 years agoPost 1
canardman

rrApprentice

Waco, TX

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I got my shogun up and flying today. I have a pretty much stock V1 with a brushed 400. I have hs55's and a 401 gyro. Anyhow I flew it for about 3 minutes before a noticable change in head speed. Is this normal?
(Oh yeah, I have a 1600Mah Lipo on it.) 3D is out of the question. The head went from about 1900rpm to 1400 rpm. I don't know if the battery is weak, or if it is typical of a brushed motor.

Any input is welcome and appriciated.

Enrolled full time A&P school... No time for flying :-(

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12-05-2005 03:11 AM  12 years agoPost 2
leslie

rrKey Veteran

Hollis, NH - USA

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Hi Canardman,

Congrats on getting your bird up and running. I can't imagine why you lost head speed. I'm running brushless, so I can't comment directly. But I've read on this board about folks breaking in their brushed motors.

Did you break the motor in?? Using a small battery and running it for a while to 'set' the brushes?

Anyway, it flys this is good!


Cheers,
leslie

Protecting those who protect us

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12-05-2005 03:44 AM  12 years agoPost 3
canardman

rrApprentice

Waco, TX

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Leslie

Thanks.

No, that had already been done. or so I was told. I really don't want ot upgrade this thing too much. I only got it flying because I couldn't sell it. I only have about $200 in the whole thing. It will hover, fly and so on, but inverted flight is out of the question.

Enrolled full time A&P school... No time for flying :-(

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12-05-2005 03:50 AM  12 years agoPost 4
rcnut2

rrNovice

Canada

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Change in head speed is not normal. This is a good indication that something is starting to bind and add unwanted loading. I had this happen to mine within 30 minutes of flying just before the tail drive fell apart. Keep an eye on the drive gears, bearings, white gears turning black, indicating that the carbon fiber rod is starting to wear in the tail boom bearings. Nothing worse than an unexpected pirouette at an un-opportune time.

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12-05-2005 06:24 AM  12 years agoPost 5
turboomni

rrProfessor

East of the Equator

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There are Many reasons for what you said happened to your heli.
Poor motor and or breakin.
Too long a runtime on the crappy stock brushed motor.Not your case.
Too low a throttle curve.
To high collective pitch for throttle curve.
In short .,loading the motor with too much load at to low an rpm.
This overload situation makes the motor suck lots more power to use it's Torque instead of it's horsepower at higher rpms. This will heat up the motor and cook the windings and or brushes of the crap stock motor.
I broke in my second motor in a glass of water with a 3 volt Battery Sourse NOT AN AC power supply sourse of any kind. This is on a new motor not something you already ran. Sparks temper brush material and temper it and makes the brushes Hard because of the local high heat. They will then never mate well with the armature as the brushes are to hard or tempered.
Running in water lubes with low voltage,, then the brushes have no high heat sparks to temper the brushes. They will then wear uniformly to the armature surface with more contact and thus more power.
Gear mesh is critical on the V1 Shogun from pinion to main gear and tail drive shaft.
Out of balance in mains or tail blades is very important to correct.
Friction in the crappy carbon tail boom drive shaft [warped slightly] will sap power.,
Poor connection of connectors to the Batt/Esc
With a stock brushed motor the heli has very little reserve power ,but it can work very well it all systems arein the motors favor.
Run the poor sucker of a motor as high an rpm you can and with as little pitch you need to get the job done.
This will keep it in it's HP power band. Stay away from the lower rpm grunt stuff ,,Torque,,, as you will burn it up with too much amp draw.
My second motor turned out so well I gave it to friend who was learning on a Shogun as I went to a 400DH. The brushed motor is still going strong in my buddies heli with a TP 2100 3C lipo.

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12-05-2005 06:25 AM  12 years agoPost 6
turboomni

rrProfessor

East of the Equator

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No heat sink will hurt too,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

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12-07-2005 01:09 AM  12 years agoPost 7
canardman

rrApprentice

Waco, TX

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Well...It's dead!

I had it in flight today when I lost head speed and it came down. It broke the blade grips, and bent the spindle. I give up. I'll stay with my nitro heli. Thanks for all the info guys, I just don't think electrics are for me!
-George-

P.S. If anyone wants some shogun parts, I have a crashed one for sale.....cheap!

Enrolled full time A&P school... No time for flying :-(

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12-07-2005 01:52 AM  12 years agoPost 8
turboomni

rrProfessor

East of the Equator

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Sorry to hear that ! Are you giving up? Parts are cheap. Did the pinion let go off the motor as you said you lost head speed.

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12-07-2005 02:10 AM  12 years agoPost 9
Hoverdown3K

rrKey Veteran

Rochester, New York

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put a nice 400DH is that Shogun, it will come alive!

-= I know there is Money in RC helicopters. I put it there=-

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12-07-2005 01:15 PM  12 years agoPost 10
canardman

rrApprentice

Waco, TX

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I found that the gear was rubbing on the frame, and tail servo. I think as heat built up, so did friction. I don't think I will repair it. It has broken blade grips and a bent spindle. I already have mor $$ in this thing than it will ever be worth. There comes a time when you gotta "cut bait".

Enrolled full time A&P school... No time for flying :-(

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12-08-2005 01:10 AM  12 years agoPost 11
ShellDude

rrElite Veteran

East Coventry, PA

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already have mor $$ in this thing than it will ever be worth. There comes a time when you gotta "cut bait".
Or not..... this started as a "cheapo" #35...

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12-08-2005 04:39 AM  12 years agoPost 12
turboomni

rrProfessor

East of the Equator

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I found that the gear was rubbing on the frame, and tail servo. I think as heat built up, so did friction.
Rubbing on the frame is normal. Rubbing on the tail servo requires abit of filing and fitting.of the servo..No Big DEAL.
Your Crappy brushed motor burnt out cause it's crap. It takes abit of doing to make it work at all. That's another story.
You need a Brushless motor and ESC. If you ever try another Electric Heli you will need this anyway. Any other E heli will give you headaches unless you understand what they are about.
ShellDUDE,,nice heli for show but you aren't any help.
Do you just hop it around once a year and take pics? IF Not offer some info ! Nice pic if there were girls from the Tokyo Heli Show in it!!!!
Talk Man!!! Bling is NOTHING to me Without FUNCTION.
The TITANIC Was A BLING Machine!!!!!!!!

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12-08-2005 04:51 AM  12 years agoPost 13
ShellDude

rrElite Veteran

East Coventry, PA

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lol... my trials and tribulations with that heli are well documented within the anals of RR

First thing to go was the junk walkera transmitter, receiver w/ integrated esc, gyro, and servos.

At the same time the tail servo moved from the frame with a flimsly linkage to the boom.

A few weeks later the crappy tail gear system was replaced with the belt conversion.

Another few weeks passed and the burned out machabi or w/e can was replaced with an Align brushless motor and well matched 12T pinion.

Then the frame because I couldn't pass up an awesome deal MrCarbon posted.

I was never satisfied with the stock tail grips. Again just too flimsy so I used two spare grips I had for my T-Rex and now my tail is rock solid. I'm also using T-Rex tail rotors but they're pretty much the same.

I still use the foamy blades. I alternate between them and the Align 295 and 300 plastics.

The head, well I hate z bend linkages and thats what mine came with so I really had no choice in the matter. The only upgrade path was the blue cnc aluminum parts....

What is this bling thing you refer to?

Before a recent radio failure my "cheap" 2nd helicopter was well on its way to performing as well as my trusty T-Rex.

3D? nah... never even tried anything serious, but I do a bit of FF and FFF.

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12-11-2005 04:40 AM  12 years agoPost 14
turboomni

rrProfessor

East of the Equator

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What is this bling thing you refer to?

LOL!! Funny thing is I got my Shogun V1 to work great with these mods:
Sparrow CNC aluminum boom driveshaft
Upgrade bearings for the tailblades,[one pulled out in flight]
JustGoFly 400DH with 8T pinion
CC25 ESC
TP 2100 Lipos
Like 90 wood blades
MicroHeli? Tail Pitch Slider assembly
HS56+hs50 sevos
CSM200 LW Gyro. [don't recommend it}
Chrome arm bend mod + light paddle holders
Thats about it!
With that I could FFF ,Loops,,Rolls,,stall turns,,etc were all reliable and easy.
I hate to see you just give up especially when I see a Brushed Motor in there. Hovering only and not reliable with limited power! Give yourself a chance!! I am on your side! Put a brushless motor in it!

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12-11-2005 06:51 PM  12 years agoPost 15
ShellDude

rrElite Veteran

East Coventry, PA

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I agree with Omni... don't throw in the towel yet.

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12-12-2005 01:34 AM  12 years agoPost 16
phat742

rrNovice

las vegas, nv - usa

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were you using the evo-flight lipo battery? i've seen those things just drop voltage out of nowhere right in the middle of a flight. too bad it went in. probably $30 to fix it. but that'll buy alot of nitro instead. hehe

i can feel the thud when it hits the ground. hehe

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12-12-2005 03:20 AM  12 years agoPost 17
turboomni

rrProfessor

East of the Equator

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Yeah the Evo Lipoly is a Joke,,

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12-16-2005 02:49 AM  12 years agoPost 18
canardman

rrApprentice

Waco, TX

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I was using the evo batteries. I may build this thing up later. When it flew, with full head speed, it was sweet. It was rock solid with a gy401 hs-50 on tail, hs-55's the rest of the way around. I may go with a brushless, some head upgrades, and a belt upgrade. A future project....

Enrolled full time A&P school... No time for flying :-(

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12-19-2005 05:18 AM  11 years agoPost 19
turboomni

rrProfessor

East of the Equator

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When it flew, with full head speed, it was sweet. It was rock solid with a gy401 hs-50 on tail, hs-55's the rest of the way around. I may go with a brushless
You answered your own question,,do it

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12-26-2005 01:10 AM  11 years agoPost 20
Brett

rrVeteran

Chicago Burbs

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Hey Shelldude

How does that work with the antenna all apront the LG

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