RunRyder RC
 4  Topic Subscribe
WATCH
 2 pages [ <<    <    ( 1 )     2     NEXT    >> ] 1638 views
HelicopterMiniature Aircraft Whiplash & Fury 55 › old school Xcell help
12-05-2005 12:25 AM  12 years agoPost 1
jh4db536

rrApprentice

Monterey Park, California

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

background:

I have an old school Xcell 60. never flown and the OS61 engine has never been started. this thing has sat on my shelf since the early 90's. all the electronics are obselete im sure, but i have replacements. the only aftermarket parts i have are CF blades.

without doing any research im pretty sure there's many updates, upgrades, recalls, & fixes for this thing. i got back into flying a little less than a year ago and i bought a trex sized heli which has proved to be a very nice little heli. i trained on this thing and i can putt around the sky no problem. i learned what the latest has to offer.

supposedly i should have no problem piloting a heli this size.

my questions are the following:

so how do i get rid of this ridiculous wood radio tray? i prefer to use direct ccpm 120 degree swash setup.

i want to mount the tail servo on the boom. probably use a GY240 or 401 gyro.

i had bad experiences with shaft driven tail rotors in micro heli. am i going to experience that in this heli? belt drive mod? looking at the shaft system design after what ive been through - that puny wire for a shaft looks so fraile like it wants to break during spool up

i had mixed experience with nitro engines. a pain in the butt and messy with cars and not so bad with planks. the brushless electrics are very easy to work with in my micro chopper.

is it worth the effort, money, and time to get this thing in the air?? or should i just sell it and get something else.

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
12-05-2005 03:47 AM  12 years agoPost 2
TMoore

rrMaster

Cookeville, TN

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

If it was ready to fly in the early 90's swap out the batteries and give it a go.

We actualy flew these things back in the 90's. The wire drive is pretty stout. You might be surprised.

TM

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
12-05-2005 04:32 AM  12 years agoPost 3
jh4db536

rrApprentice

Monterey Park, California

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

that thing had a gyro with a motor in it lol. that's pretty old.

i would still have to break the engine in.

i dont have the long starter rod thing.

do you think that association would care if i tried to hover this in my driveway? i dont think my neighbors would mind 10 minutes of 2 stroke power.

Approx how long does a 4.8v 600mAH Rx battery last?

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
12-05-2005 04:44 AM  12 years agoPost 4
TMoore

rrMaster

Cookeville, TN

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

A 600mah battery is a little light but should get one flight if it will cycle, which is doubtful considering its age.

You will need a starter adapter no matter what.

I'm not the least bit afraid of a mechanical gyro. We used them for years.

Noise is another matter.

Get a few issues cleared up and give it a go.

TM

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
12-06-2005 02:21 AM  12 years agoPost 5
Thomas L Erb

rrKey Veteran

Alliance ohio

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Get RID of the battery. Get at least 1200 mah nic . just make sure that what ever you get is a subc size cell.Dont use a AA size. Rear servo mount easy fix but not needed. Tube drive is awsome but not needed unless you plan nasty tail work.As for the ccpm option fly this until it dies and then get a fury-tempest-status. Fly like it is . It will fly 200% easier then what you areflying now. If you decide to keep flying it and want to get it up to date for hard manuvers just add the following; Tube Drive, carbon tail push rod, rear servo mount , front tail shaft support and fly the snot out of it . Item #1and 4 are absolutes 2and 3 if you feel the need. Other than that , that is all you need to have a great flying 60 machine. Good luck and good flying Tom

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
12-07-2005 12:14 AM  12 years agoPost 6
jh4db536

rrApprentice

Monterey Park, California

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

target headspeed?? in my micro it's like 2500-3000...im sure this is more like 1500?

pitch range -10 to +10 should work okay??

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
12-07-2005 04:11 PM  12 years agoPost 7
NewHeli

rrKey Veteran

Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Do you have any pictures? I have an XCell pro graphite 60 that is probably similar, I might be able to help you out.

Nathaniel

Nathaniel Rice
Team YS Engines

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
12-07-2005 04:32 PM  12 years agoPost 8
GM1

rrElite Veteran

Tallahassee, Florida US

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

A word of warning

If you have a wire drive for the tail rotor, be aware. Heading hold piezo gyros drove the wire drive tails crazy and for the most part required conversion to shaft drive.
I flew a wood trayed X-Cell #0001 for several years and it was very good for it's day and they still fly very well. There is a plastic replacement front servo tray available for the older X-Cells but conversion to 120 eCCPM is not a really simple thing to do. I have seen it done but it was done by a very experienced modeler and even he said it was not worth the effort.
Gordie

On a dog sled team, if you're not the lead dog, the view never changes.

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  BLOGAttn:RR  Quote
12-07-2005 05:02 PM  12 years agoPost 9
steve9534

rrKey Veteran

yakima, wa.

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

1001 Xcell

I had several and finally murdered the last one about a year ago when the 15 year old roll cyclic servo quit in knife edge. You can still buy most (maybe all??) the parts to fix them, and they fly very well. The basic Miniature Aircraft head and t/r design hasn't really changed much on even the latest models, and your heli should hold up well as long as you stick to the 61 for power. A heading hold gyro makes a world of difference, and like GM says, pretty much requires the torque tube t/r drive to work properly. The alternate, bargain basement, fix is to drill out the holes on the couplers front and back, then use larger (.080"??) piano wire and a correspondingly larger brass tube The starter shaft that comes out of the clutch wears on the upper bearing and some red Loctite will help to avoid problems there. I converted a couple of them to CCPM, but it's not worth the trouble. You can buy a plastic servo tray, but I never had any problems with the wood ones except they flexed some. Braces connecting the rear corners to the frame will help stiffen it up. Hope this helps. steve.

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
12-08-2005 01:44 AM  12 years agoPost 10
jh4db536

rrApprentice

Monterey Park, California

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

So this is what i need??

0818 Graphite Rear Rudder Servo Mounting Kit $24
0832 Heavy Duty Front Tail Drive Conversion Kit $50
0867-15 Heavy Duty Tube Drive for 33" boom $45
120-15 33" Aluminum Tail Boom $21

luxury items:
0575 Injection Molded Plastic Servo Tray (Complete Set) $44

id like either of these:
0508 Ball Bearing Aileron Tilt Kit $20
0854-1 C.N.C. Ball Bearing Aileron Servo Cradle X-Cell $48

looks like this is going to cost quite a bit and that doesnt even solve all my problems.

============================================================

i tore the heli apart today with all my new knowledge of heli. things were way too tight before and probably wouldve killed servos fast. i was like 11 years old when i first put it together...i was never really sure if it was ready to fly. i am confident it's ready to go now once i get the 'updates/upgrades' above.

can i break in the engine inside the heli? what kind of nitro should i feed it? %Nitro, %Oil, %alcohol?

is it normal for the tail transmission to whine? it definitely sounds like metallic gears. it's friction free though and i think the mesh is good.

this thing probably needs new cyclic servos. im going to use whatever i got for the throtle as that probably doesnt matter.

cyclic - will hitec standard size/BB/40-60oz in work?
tail servo specs? speed? torq?

ill get pictures. it's really old school. probably 80's stuff.

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
12-08-2005 02:39 AM  12 years agoPost 11
NewHeli

rrKey Veteran

Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

If you get the GY 401, get the tail servo that comes with it (9254), it is rated at .06@60 and I'm not sure the torque--but it should be good. I use a GY501 on my XCell 60.

I have a YS 61 ST in mine, running on Cool Power 15%, but it has been run before on 30%.

I'm not sure you need the rear mounted tail servo, however that is because mine uses a carbon control rod. Guess it's sort of a compromise.

The tail transmission will have some noise, but it shouldn't be excessive or really loud--as long as it runs smooth and has a good mesh.

My headspeed is 1650, works great.

Here are some pictures of mine, but keep in mind it is highly upgraded and I'm sure a slightly newer version. Also I doubt yours has carbon frames:

Nathaniel

Nathaniel Rice
Team YS Engines

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
12-08-2005 04:44 AM  12 years agoPost 12
Thomas L Erb

rrKey Veteran

Alliance ohio

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Your head speed for hovering -1400 flying and aerbatics 1750-1800. you should have (for long life) at least 9202 futaba or equiv. about 76ozs servos execpt for gyro use 9254 digital. battery pack needs to be sub-c size cell (if nic or nimh) I run 30% but 15% will fly fine just less power.
You can break in the engine in the heli. The servo tray and the sideframes are the major changes to that machine 90% of that machine is still the same today . you probly have a bent frame version. the new 1001 kit has strait sideframes . The other item you need to add to you need list is a tail control rod if you plan to use the 33 " boom. The 31 1\2" is enought uless you plan on using 700 of longer blades, the stock boom is 30" and stock blades were 680mm so much to add so little time. Tom

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
12-08-2005 05:36 AM  12 years agoPost 13
Jim Patterson

rrApprentice

AREA 51 Roswell

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

All the above, excellent advice. I still have a perfectly airworthy stock 1001. I hate to sell it as it was my first real heli and served me well. I still take it out once in a while. Has the black square head OS60 with a Super Tiger carb and the U shaped hatori tuned pipe that loops thru the frame. Smooth as glass. Is a twin to the one on the cover of Ray's first edition heli book that he is flying inverted. Still has the wire drive also. but I don't push it too hard. Rolls and loops are no problem, fast forward, etc. Enjoy
Jim

Highly addicted to carbon fiber.....

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
12-08-2005 06:43 AM  12 years agoPost 14
jh4db536

rrApprentice

Monterey Park, California

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

can someone show me where the tube drive system is?? i dont think im looking at the right one?? most likely i think im going to have to get a new tail boom too as the new torq tube wont fit in the wire sized supports glued inside the original boom.

i have bent frame, wooden tray, holes in the gas tank (im not liking this idea much), wire drive.

how hard would this be to fly with a non head holding gyro? would it still be easier than the micro?

ive never flew a nitro heli before so i have no idea what it's going to be like. i really wonder if this thing is stronger and has a crazier climbrate than the mini hehe

crap i guess im going to be needing new servos maybe. i have 4 basically new servos: 2x NES-L401 and 2xNESL4001. what are the specs on these? can i use them on the cyclic, collective, and throtle?

this is getting really expensive haha....

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
12-08-2005 07:05 AM  12 years agoPost 15
TMoore

rrMaster

Cookeville, TN

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I would just replace the flight battery pack and fly it. Those servos aren't as good as the ones we run today but for 1991-92 they worked fine. At this stage of the game, you either upgrade or fly stock. If you are going to the trouble of upgrading I would look at buying a new one. The gyro may be a mechanical one but if it is working it can be flown. Hell, we flew these gyros for years before HH technology was invented.

This machine will outperform your electric for sure.

If you have no confidence in the machine park it and go buy an EVO or a Raptor with new electronics and go for it.

TM

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
12-08-2005 03:18 PM  12 years agoPost 16
jh4db536

rrApprentice

Monterey Park, California

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

i dont think this mechanical gyro works. it's like dead. im going to use a gy240 or 401. that means i need the tube drive minimum. where do i get the tube drive from?

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
12-08-2005 05:37 PM  12 years agoPost 17
xcellgasman101

rrElite Veteran

WOODWARD, OKLA....

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I think that I have everything you will need to upgrade to torque tube style tail.. Let me look this evening, and I'll get back to you... XGM

John Crotts
www.soonerhelicamproductions.com

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
12-08-2005 10:52 PM  12 years agoPost 18
NewHeli

rrKey Veteran

Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

If you're trying to decided between the 401 and 240, I'd say definetly go with the 401.

BTW, which radio are you using?

Still waiting for pictures...

Nathaniel

Nathaniel Rice
Team YS Engines

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
12-08-2005 11:06 PM  12 years agoPost 19
TMoore

rrMaster

Cookeville, TN

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Whether you fly with a 240 or a 401, if you are going to run the wire drive, it's best to run the gyro in rate mode as Gordie outlined in his post.

TM

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
12-09-2005 04:18 AM  12 years agoPost 20
jh4db536

rrApprentice

Monterey Park, California

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Tx = JR xp6102
Rx= R770SPCM
i might settle for just using another GY240..depends what kind of deal i can find.

i have 5 spare sanyo 3000mAH subC's. considering making a 6v Rx pack.

im not in an extreme hurry to get this thing running. it's winter anyway and more than i can afford at this time of year.

i'll get pics eventually, but im really busy until after next tuesday. crunch time until winter break.

how do should i set throtle curves on a nitro? do i just give it negative pitch, tach it, and the positive curve should be pretty much symmetrical?



PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
WATCH
 2 pages [ <<    <    ( 1 )     2     NEXT    >> ] 1638 views
HelicopterMiniature Aircraft Whiplash & Fury 55 › old school Xcell help
 Print TOPIC  Make Suggestion 

 4  Topic Subscribe

Monday, December 11 - 3:05 pm - Copyright © 2000-2017 RunRyder   EMAILEnable Cookies

Login Here
 New Subscriptions 
 Buddies Online