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Other › Detailed DD conversion pictures
12-04-2005 08:50 PM  12 years agoPost 1
saahbs

rrApprentice

Aurora, IL.

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I did a DD conversion last night and for the benefit of all who haven't done it yet, I've taken a number of pictures. For cutting I used Dremel cutting disc and 5W iron for soldering. Remember to put loctite on prop adapter locking screws!

I must say DD conversion was successful, The tail is much more stable and current draw of the tail motor is more consistent, resulting in no change in power of the main motor.

I didn't have to touch the proportional adjustment and gyro had to be turned down (as expected).

Flight times are slightly shorter due to higher power requirements of GWS50/H motor. I typically got 19min of hover in my garage with HB-CP2, 3s1200, stock 400 and sym. blades. With DD it is ~17min. I discharge my packs 1000mah.

Here are the pics:

1. Following are the GWS parts you need to get:

2. To save weight, I removed the geared GWS shaft tube:

3. Next, assemble the prop adaptor:

4. This is the finished tail drive:

5. I covered mine with a light self adhesive tape:

6. Complete unit is only 22g!!!

7. Compare the GWS DD and the size of the original HEAVY prop:

8. To remove the old tail, I mounted the boom in a vise (to prevent damage to the rest of the frame) and used dremel cutting disc to cut the boom without damaging the wires inside. On ESky Honey Bee CP2, I was able to move the motor 2" forward without risking blade interference:

9. Wires intact! Since my tail boom was reglued, I didn't want to have to install new wires on the outside, if I were to damage the ones already installed:

10. Old tail parts are 18g, only 4g lighter than GWS DD:

11. Finished and installed GWS DD tail unit. Note hot glue to lock the unit in place while allowing easy removal if necessary:

12. With 3s1200 pack in the location shown, the heli balances perfectly.

Thank you to all who have previously posted numerous DD conversion notes and pictures. The upgrade was really easy and straightforward.

Thanks,

Mike

--
I fly airplanes, sailplanes, helis; nitro and electric.

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12-04-2005 08:58 PM  12 years agoPost 2
1LO64

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Minnesnowta

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Nice topic.....I'm waiting for my parts to come in

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12-04-2005 09:24 PM  12 years agoPost 3
futuramille

rrVeteran

SC USA

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Nice build thread. This is a great upgrade. thanks saahbs.



------------------------------
.....I need more batteries!!!

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12-04-2005 11:40 PM  12 years agoPost 4
Strick276

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Orlando, Fl

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I will soon be getting a Blade and would like to do the DD taill upgrade. L like the looks and size of the GWS conversion however my LHS told me the 4530 prop is way to big and would draw too much current for the 4 in 1 to handle. They recommended not to go over a 3020 prop. Has anyone had any problems with burning up the 4 in 1 with the larger prop?

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12-05-2005 02:45 AM  12 years agoPost 5
Jimmy Hoffa

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Orlando, FL

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my LHS told me the 4530 prop is way to big and would draw too much current for the 4 in 1 to handle. They recommended not to go over a 3020 prop. Has anyone had any problems with burning up the 4 in 1 with the larger prop?
I was going to post the exact same question! This evening, a friend told me that either Bob's of Graves here in Orlando said the same thing!
Hopefully, someone can answer both of us.

When I first bought my Blade last July, Graves said the GWS 3x2 would burn up the 4in1. After many hours of flying, I can report no problems.
Phillip

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12-05-2005 08:52 AM  12 years agoPost 6
BikeNBoatN

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Santa Ana, CA USA

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The black 4530 prop works just fine with the EDP-50/H motor and stock 4-in-1. I've had this combo on my BCP for the past month and a half flying almost daily. Finally burned up my first tail motor after a month. Unfortunately, the next 2 motors only lasted about a week apiece. First one had dead spots on the commutator, the 2nd one seized up tight. Couldn't get a replacement motor for about a week so I went back to the geared tail. Yuck! Glad I was finally able to put the DD back on this past weekend. Much better now! The 4-in-1 has been fine the whole time.

Brent.

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12-05-2005 10:15 PM  12 years agoPost 7
Gary Hoorn

rrKey Veteran

Annapolis Maryland USA

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Mike,
Thank you for the detailed post. I received my parts from Chris this afternoon. It is snowing outside now so I will be on the bench working.
Gary

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12-08-2005 01:01 AM  12 years agoPost 8
1LO64

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Minnesnowta

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Just put mine together.......2 things to note.

#1 - The prop really needs some pressure to fit over the bushing!!

#2 - Be prepared to pull out the SMALLEST allen wrench you have to fasten the prop to the motor shaft!!

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12-08-2005 02:30 AM  12 years agoPost 9
Bill8Bud

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Rocklin CA

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Great work!

One note I had to put a flat spot on the motor drive shaft to keep the prop from flying off.

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12-08-2005 06:56 PM  12 years agoPost 10
1LO64

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Minnesnowta

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I did that also....haven't been able to find an allen wrench that small though

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12-08-2005 08:41 PM  12 years agoPost 11
hoverking

rrKey Veteran

Tennessee

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there should be a allen wrench in the prop package everyone of them

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12-08-2005 09:04 PM  12 years agoPost 12
saahbs

rrApprentice

Aurora, IL.

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hoverking,

Mine didn't include it. The only tiny allen wrench I had, was too small! I tightened it with small needle nose pliers, veriefied that I cannot pull the prop off, and then thin CA'ed it. I figure it will be easier to use debonder than breaking loctite (without a proper wrench).

Mike

--
I fly airplanes, sailplanes, helis; nitro and electric.

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12-08-2005 09:14 PM  12 years agoPost 13
L0stS0ul

rrApprentice

Virgina - USA

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I used needle nose pliers as well after I stripped the heads on 2 different small hex wrenches that I had. My package did not come with the wrench either. I used green loctite on mine. I've been able to break them free with the pliers.

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12-08-2005 09:26 PM  12 years agoPost 14
futuramille

rrVeteran

SC USA

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....used us allen wrench (fit tighter than metric) and green lock tight. No problems....yet! This little bugger was my only complaint about the whole upgrade kit. certainly not a show stopper in any way.



------------------------------
.....I need more batteries!!!

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12-10-2005 09:17 PM  12 years agoPost 15
sparky814_hawk

rrNovice

Chico, California

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DD Tail Upgrade Part

Where exactly did you order the DD kit from. Does it come as a complete kit or is it parted out with multiple parts? Just wanted to look into getting it and would like to know the site to look at.

Thanks,

John

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12-10-2005 09:25 PM  12 years agoPost 16
saahbs

rrApprentice

Aurora, IL.

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sparky814_hawk,

I got my parts from http://www.gwsparts.com, but I know some places sell it as a complete kit.

M.

--
I fly airplanes, sailplanes, helis; nitro and electric.

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12-10-2005 09:57 PM  12 years agoPost 17
BikeNBoatN

rrVeteran

Santa Ana, CA USA

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My LHS now carries these parts, but before that, I got my first DD tail setup from here.

http://caliber30.com/bladeparts.shtml

Brent.

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12-15-2005 03:27 PM  12 years agoPost 18
akerkhof

rrApprentice

Indianapolis, IN

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Hey saahbs, I just did the mod this week, and cut off 1" of tail boom figuring that would be a safe margin, since I have the HBCP2 too. When I got everything installed, I found to my chagrin that my main rotor disk is overlapping the tail rotor disk by about a half inch. And this is with me running the shorter BCP blades.

How much overlap do you have to get before its considered interference? I pulled the tail out of its housing a bit and didn't press the GWS mount fully on to get clearance, and it flies fine. What is considered tail interference in this situation?


-- Aron in Indiana -- http://www.neolith.org/cp2 -- Honeybee CP2 Resources

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12-15-2005 03:44 PM  12 years agoPost 19
saahbs

rrApprentice

Aurora, IL.

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akerkhof,

My definition of interference is that there is no way for the main blade to strike the tail blade.
As you can see from the last photo, I will not have interference. The blades I'm using are ESky's shortened by about 1/3" (about same length as Horizon's). I've seen people stating that shortening the tail boom by 1.5" works for them. 2" worked on mine.

I'm wondering, could there be variability of the tail boom length? Blade's different than HoneyBee CP2? different between early and late examples? hmm...

Always measure twice and cut once

And yeah, there is also aerodynamic interference, but I don't know what is the accepted separation between main and tail blades to avoid it. Anyone?

Thanks,
Mike

--
I fly airplanes, sailplanes, helis; nitro and electric.

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12-15-2005 03:57 PM  12 years agoPost 20
akerkhof

rrApprentice

Indianapolis, IN

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Ok, I see what you mean. Yeah, I could probably remove another inch before I am in danger of physically striking the blades. But I'm going to go back to the stock boom next time I rebuild or replace the tail motor, unless somebody says that the aerodynamics are ok. Too bad, cause my setup is tail heavy, and I can't move the battery any further forward with the canopy in place.


-- Aron in Indiana -- http://www.neolith.org/cp2 -- Honeybee CP2 Resources

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