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HelicopterAerobatic 3D Contest › tic tocs
12-04-2005 05:48 PM  12 years agoPost 1
phil wright

rrNovice

nottingham

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why are tic tocs easy to do on the sim,and hard to do at the field

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12-04-2005 06:16 PM  12 years agoPost 2
Denion

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Quad Cities, USA

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For me it is the possibility of crashing.

QC RC Whirlybirds

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12-04-2005 06:29 PM  12 years agoPost 3
phil wright

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nottingham

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i think the gravity on the sim is not like the real world,the helli on the sim just seems to float down when you get it wrong

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12-05-2005 09:58 AM  12 years agoPost 4
cootertwo

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Labelle Florida USA

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it's the "pucker factor"

One Day At A Time

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12-05-2005 10:29 AM  12 years agoPost 5
TTRappy50Uk

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North Yorks (UK)

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I think the delay in the stick movements is not quite the same on the sim - as in you dont quite go one back and one forward at the same time, if you catch my drift?

Just get lots of practice in..

www.hambleton-helis.co.uk

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12-06-2005 06:25 AM  12 years agoPost 6
lavarocks

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Rochester, NY

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Depends on the Sim and power/cyclic of each helicopter.

- chuckyteets

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12-06-2005 10:59 AM  12 years agoPost 7
davehour

rrElite Veteran

Guayama, Puerto Rico 00785

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Probably the power.

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12-11-2005 12:00 PM  12 years agoPost 8
Yug

rrMaster

UK. Herts

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The sim has a lower gravity factor than real life. If you wan't to make things easier, practice left sided tic tocs on the sim. This attitude means the tail rotor wash is working against you so you have to be much more accurate on the sticks. Practice descending and ascending on left sided tic tocs and you'll find the real thing gets alot easier.

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12-11-2005 12:20 PM  12 years agoPost 9
nivlek

rrProfessor

Norfolk England

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why are tic tocs easy to do on the sim,and hard to do at the field
Out of interest , which sim are you using ?

At the end of the day , it gets dark .

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12-19-2005 11:59 PM  12 years agoPost 10
tomthumb

rrApprentice

Glendora California

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I find the timing to be different on the sim as someone mentioned in an earlier post. The way I learned was an empty field and a gallon of fuel. Just keep timing the collective different relative to the pitch/roll and you will find that just a little lag or lead and you can really botch the maneuver. But at one point they will seem effortless for the heli. Just keep trying to find that sweet spot. You will get it!

LOWER LOWER DOH!!!

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12-23-2005 07:09 AM  11 years agoPost 11
w.pasman

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Netherlands

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I think that a major factor is that the downwash created by the blades is not sufficiently exact in XTR, and that that is a main factor why figures like tictoc are too easy in XTR. But they are working on it at XTR.
Too much power in the sim (HP from the engine I mean) is also a frequent issue. factory HP is definitely more than what you get in real life ;-)
Have no idea about other sims.

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12-23-2005 02:16 PM  11 years agoPost 12
ESWLFSE

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Liberty Hill, TX

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When pinching and executing these, do you release pressure alternately with your thumb and index finger as you alternate stick directions so as not to add rudder and roll to the maneuver?

Mine are sloppy because I have a hard time moving both sticks back and forth exactly vertically while pinching without adding rudder and roll and messing it up.

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12-23-2005 03:29 PM  11 years agoPost 13
Yug

rrMaster

UK. Herts

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That is one of my arguments against pinching, it requires far more dexterity in the joints, particularly when you start adding piros or n-point tictocs. I'll be sticking with just thumbs

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12-23-2005 03:37 PM  11 years agoPost 14
Yug

rrMaster

UK. Herts

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w.pasman
I wonder weather one of the big differences between real and sim relates to stick-to-servo response. Perhaps XTR doesn't take this into account as it should, as I find that I have to work my thumbs in advance of the timing used on the sim. It would be a worthy experiment to swap out my 9C stuff for the 14MZ and see if the timing latency is improved.

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12-23-2005 04:10 PM  11 years agoPost 15
w.pasman

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Netherlands

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Guy

You might have a point there.This would then concern only the *servo* latency, as the Tx latency is still there. So using a very high latency Tx on the sim might improve your field skills

But wasn't there a servo latency setting somewhere? Of was that only for the rudder servo? (I'm talking XTR)

Downwash-feel on the real machine might come from slow servos as well. Exactly therefore I have very fast servos on the cyclic. Still I think that downwash is the real issue, as in most cases the real heli does NOT give me a sloppy, high latency feel, only in certain tictoc conditions and fast descends.

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12-23-2005 08:18 PM  11 years agoPost 16
mrNoodles

rrProfessor

Borlänge, Sweden

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Timing

Lead with collective, add cyclic

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12-23-2005 08:35 PM  11 years agoPost 17
Yug

rrMaster

UK. Herts

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There is no latency parameter in XTR.
Just to add to what I said earlier, I think it is safe to say that the relative changes to the stick timings in for example, the 4 points of a 4 point tictoc tend to be very similar in both XTR and a real heli. I use a 9C at the field, and an FF6 on the sim. I believe the FF6 is a faster radio than the 9C anyway. I recently used my 9C on the sim, and there is quite a big difference between the 2, and can take a while to dial into the different Tx. Inital feelings are that it's a little sluggish.

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01-03-2006 09:30 PM  11 years agoPost 18
w.pasman

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Netherlands

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I'm using the same Tx for both sim and real machine (FF8S). So the main latency difference will be in how good the sim simulates the servo speed.

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01-03-2006 11:06 PM  11 years agoPost 19
Yug

rrMaster

UK. Herts

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and receiver latency + tx rf module.

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01-05-2006 09:17 PM  11 years agoPost 20
w.pasman

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Netherlands

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Yes but Tx RF module is just modulation, no buffering, and should not add more than a microsec of latency

The Rx will have a small buffer and sending the signal to the servo will also add to the latency. But these are all small compared to the servo latency itself.

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HelicopterAerobatic 3D Contest › tic tocs
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