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HelicopterOff Topics › Unjust Police stop!!!!!!!!!!!
12-04-2005 09:07 PM  12 years agoPost 21
dariof

rrVeteran

Henderson, NV / Laguna Niguel, CA

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I believe that ones own driving ability, familiarity with their vehicle, and condition of their tires determines what is a safe and appropriate speed. I often drive over 1000 miles/week and have been doing field service for almost 10 years. I am also an auto enthusiast and have raced in several venues. I believe I can drive safely and at higher speeds in adverse conditions that the average driver.
Too bad not everyone has this level of expertise. There would rarely be any accidents on the road. Unfoftunately, you still have to contend with the mortal drivers out there, and they would cause the accident with you. Driving too fast in adverse conditions is not smart, whether or not the accident is your fault or theirs.

Best Regards, Dario

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12-04-2005 11:11 PM  12 years agoPost 22
Galen Tillery

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Birmingham, Alabama US

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Down in Alabama, we just swap the cigarrette to the other side of our mouth as we tell the State Trooper to Kiss Our Ass!

God invented time so we don't have to do everything at once!

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12-04-2005 11:33 PM  12 years agoPost 23
Professor Fate

rrKey Veteran

Goose Creek S.C.

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If you're a southerner
I was flying today but had to set her down and wipe the sweat out of my eyes.

Welcome my son, Welcome to the machine

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12-05-2005 12:10 AM  12 years agoPost 24
Bill Collins

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Middletown, CT. U.S.A.

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Rub it in. Snow here today. About 25F degrees out. One good thing about the snow though. I will finally get to use my skiis for my planes. (Planks )





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12-05-2005 12:47 AM  12 years agoPost 25
cessna151

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Missouri... Originally Indiana

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next time he sees you he will make you ante up.
LOL, if you get pulled over enough that this actually happens, then you deserve it!

--Eagles may soar high, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines!--

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12-05-2005 12:50 AM  12 years agoPost 26
cessna151

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Missouri... Originally Indiana

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As for the daily calibration thing....not correct. We are only required to perform a test of the equipment daily
What the hell?

--Eagles may soar high, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines!--

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12-05-2005 01:05 AM  12 years agoPost 27
RobGiles(JR)

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Ocala, Florida USA

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Opened can of worms

Hello again....I agree with almost every opinion on this subject thus far. Except that 40 is excesssive in snow conditions. The hardest thing for me to get past, is that he said "Im citing you for passing on the right." Please correct me if I'm wrong, but when did that become illegal? If this is a matter of a technicallity.....then try this on for size.....On this particular 3 lane highway i was traveling on.....the max speed is 65mph...55mph for trucks....And the minimum speed is 45mph....then "TECHNICALLY" everyone on that highway was under the minimum and should have been cited. I know thats reaching. Also, when i "crept" past the officer, wouldnt blinding another driver with your overhead lamp in the face be considered...Careless?? Had i lost control and crashed into the cruiser because i was blinded, guess who would be at fault? The punk 23 year old kid driving carelessly....Oh well...Im done whining about it.....Just aggrovating....Also, for the record, I 100% agree with the statement that 4 wheel drive does not mean 4 wheel stop. And if you live in Michigan, or even in the northern states, nobody should ever feel invinciple in the winter.

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12-05-2005 01:46 AM  12 years agoPost 28
JuanRodriguez

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The Villages, Florida

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Another cop's perspective.....

From the description you provided in your original post, the officer was well withing his rights to site you........ although you later tone down the 4 wheel drive aspect, your are sort of "boasting" that you had better traction than anyone else and therefore, you should be allowed to go faster.....You also alluded to the fact that you thought 15-25 MPH was too slow for the conditions......Yet you say that it was snowing heavily and that the rest of the traffic was doing 15-25..... Again, from your description and time of day, going faster than 15-25 mph sounds like is was not safe, 4 wheel drive or not.....Personally, I would have written you a summons for "speed not reasonable and prudent" which would more apply to the weather conditions than "passing on the right" (although technically still sound).

You seem to be hung up on the fact that the posted speed limit is 65 mph, etc........ the posted speeds limits are are meant for "ideal" driving conditions.......that is just plain ole commons sense. When the weather plays into the equation, judgement and common sense have to take over......

In most states, as I am sure is the case in your state, passing (technically) is only allowed in the left most lane........ (perhaps) not the center lane...... and certainly not the right lane..... Do people pass on the right ?? Of course. I've seen people leave the roadway to pass others..... Is that legal ?? Hell NO !!! Yet, people do it. If you check with your state's Veh and Traff Laws and in the rules and regulations that you studied to pass your written driver's test, I am sure you will find this to be true....The problem is that too much time passes and we get used to "doing our thing" even though that "thing" may be against the law. We see people violate the V and T law each and every day and get away with it..... but that does not mean that it is right.....

I live in upstate NY and can tell you that sometimes 40 IS excessive in snow conditions depending on the circumstances and the road condition under the snow (ice).....It does not matter whether or not you have 4 wheel drive or not when it comes to icy conditions that comes hand in hand that comes on the onset of heavy snowfall....

Rob, now I know what you are going to say...... "all of you ****ing cops stick together"...... I'm not happy that you got the ticket but maybe it will cause you to think a little more about what you are doing on the road, specially in bad weather and perhaps save your life someday.......

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12-05-2005 01:48 AM  12 years agoPost 29
JuanRodriguez

rrProfessor

The Villages, Florida

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well here in okc you can pass in any lane. and as long as its not over the posted speed limit then its safe. rain, shine, or freaken blizzard
I may be wrong, but I seriously doubt there is any validity to this statement....

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12-05-2005 02:32 AM  12 years agoPost 30
Topher

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Rochester, Michigan

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Rob,
I agree with you. I live in the same area and I too was driving on I-75 that night as well. I actually drive on I-75 several times a week usually and you always get cops that pull people over for stupid crap. But that night I remember there being several accidents and pile ups earlier that day around rush hour and thats probably the reason why. I get stupid tickets too, like one time I got a ticket for parking in the wrong direction. And about the quota thing, cops do have quotas, very high ones actually ever since Granholm(hate that *****) came into office.

And there are some people that do not know how to drive in snow. Thats why there are so many accidents on the freeways in michigan. But 40 at that time I dont think was over doing it as long as you know how to drive.

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12-05-2005 02:50 AM  12 years agoPost 31
Bill Collins

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Middletown, CT. U.S.A.

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In most states, as I am sure is the case in your state, passing (technically) is only allowed in the left most lane........ not the center lane...... not the right lane.....
In my state not true. Only on 2 lane highway / road you can NOT pass on the right. 3 or more lanes? Free ride. Obviously if your going over the limit...... well you know. Maybe in other states though. I wouldn't doubt it. Ignorance of the law is not an excuse. And for those who want some justice for those slowpokes in the hammer lane..... My friend's roomate was on a highway here in CT and was doing about 60 in the left lane(65 mph zone). A state trooper pulled up behind him and rode his butt for about 5 miles before he turned the lights on. Got a 100 dollar ticket. He sure was mad. He was even more mad when I laughed and told him I was glad. I hate people like that. Oh well.... can't please everbody.
Do keep us informed about your fight.

cessna151.... was wondering the same thing





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12-05-2005 03:04 AM  12 years agoPost 32
RobGiles(JR)

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Ocala, Florida USA

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Cops stick together

Juan.....Thats not my opinion at all...I know several police officers, 2 of which are close friends, and I have nothing against police officers. I respect there jobs, and appreciate what they do. But in this instance, i dont think it was necessary to cite me, and I CERTAINLY dont feel I deserved to be treated with such a negative attitude. As far as the comment about boasting I have 4 wheel drive, that is not what I meant. Certain vehicles are equipped with nice little features for these types of conditions. Better control, traction(not to mention a sweet new differential system that transfers torque to the tires with the best traction) Oh and by the way, there were only about 3 vehicles in our vicinity at the time this happened.

As for the ticket....its says.......Civil Infraction 5.14a His description is quite simply Careless driving....I pulled the Michigan uniform classificaton of traffic laws and can not find any thing that references to 5.14a Careless driving is listed as: 626b

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12-05-2005 03:34 AM  12 years agoPost 33
Salty

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St. Augustine

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While I am not a cop, never have been a cop and never will be a cop have a fairly decent understanding of policing due to the masters program I'm completing right now. and one thing that I've noticed that is missing from the discussion is the police officers discretion...prior to your introduction into the criminal justice system by the citation you recieved the officer may have let quite a few folks slide issuing verbal warnings, after the weather got worse and the officer spent some time sorting out the multiple accidents of the evening his response was that it was time to slow traffic down (his presence may have been this tactic as most wont pass a police officer) and or make an "example" of someone and you were it...while it may have not been a consious decision on his part the fact of the matter is its up to him whether or not you got the ticket or not...also, I dont know what your demeaner was when you got pulled over BUT some researchers have found (not surprisingly) that the demeaner of the suspect is a very important factor in the arrest and citation process. Finally as far as quotas are concerned, while I cant speak for all agencies most of the agencies have done away with formal quotas as far as traffic citations are concerned...that being said that does not mean that informal quotas do not still exist, I.E. a former highway patrol seargent that instructs his subordinates that they better have more citations than he does at the end of the night....very much still a quota just a little enlightenment (though every department is different this may or may not be the case with this particular dept.) As far as his attitude, (I'm not making excuses for the guy) but he has bad days just like you do, and as stated above his attitude is determined by the suspects attitude as well

Ask your Doctor if getting off your ass is right for you.

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12-05-2005 11:19 AM  12 years agoPost 34
Bill Collins

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Middletown, CT. U.S.A.

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As for the daily calibration thing....not correct. We are only required to perform a test of the equipment daily, actually it will be three times a day if we write tickets. This is not just in Missouri, but required as a result of judicial notice.
Now that I have had time to think about the daily calibration thing, we can take this 2 ways. My statement wasn't true (the part about court) OR he is agreeing with me. Could he be trying to say that if he is off duty, his assigned radar gun doesn't have to be calibrated daily, because he isn't at work? If this is the case, then his next statement of it has to be calibrated 3 times daily, if they ARE using it for ticket writing. Now if that is the case, my point about asking for the data in court holds true. If it wasn't calibrated, then he has no case. Is this what you are saying? Or am i grasping here........





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12-05-2005 04:16 PM  12 years agoPost 35
kab1sg

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Richland, Missouri

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Mr. Collins:

In Missouri, the patrol car is issued to the officer. I begin and end my day at home. If I am off duty, I am not in my patrol car. At the beginning of my shift, I test my radar unit (Stalker Dual, meaning front and rear antennae) in every possible mode I can use it in. There is also a requirement to perform a self test (internal circuitry) after each stop where I issued a citation for speeding. I am not required to provide any proof of this test in court. The only documentation I provide the court is a tuning fork certification (tuning forks are used to test the unit). I also bring my radar operator certification in case an attorney asks for proof of that. If the unit is not functioning, then I am not allowed to use it to enforce speed limits. I could use it to initiate a stop; I just can't write a ticket for speeding. I have no idea of how to calibrate it as that is only done by the manufacturer if the unit malfunctions. However, if it does malfunction, another unit is a phone call away; I just have to drive it to Troop headquarters and get it installed. You are correct that we are required to check it daily. If there happens to be a reason I am not intending to use it (only working to appear in court or a school presentation), I don't test it. There are times (called out in the early morning for a serious accident) when it is not possible to test the unit at the start of my shift. If that happens, I am still allowed to use it. I just perform a test before using it. If it fails a self-test or the test at the end of the day, then we void the tickets and send a note to the prosecutor telling them not to file the charge. If the person sends the fine by mail, their money is sent back to them. If they call about a court appearance, they are told not to appear because the matter is closed.

Of all the tickets I write, usually less than half are for speed. Three quarters of the warnings I give ARE for speed. While I may not have written a ticket for speed in the snow (I don't), I will write a ticket for careless and imprudent operation (if the driver had an accident). I don't believe it is even safe to stop cars in the snow and I don't. I agree that there are many drivers with above average skills out there. Some even have extensive training and racing experience. When racing, you are on a track with other trained drivers, licensed to race (having met a minimum acceptable skill level). that is not the case on the roadways. It's usually not the good drivers that cause accidents; they just get caught up in someone's mistakes. If I write a ticket, I am prepared to appear in court and I WILL be there. There is a long list of things (though quick) that must be in place before we can write a ticket. When all those are met and I take the time to chase a violator down, I am confident in my case; so I write a ticket. Normally it is just a case of giving people what they ask for. If a motorist operates a vehicle at excessive speeds on the interstate (I won't talk about the number I consider excessive), they are indicating a willingness to accept the ticket. For example, it is very difficult to "accidentally" drive 95 miles per hour. I perform my job with due diligence. I would rather write 1,000 tickets than knock on the door at the home of ONE deceased driver. It's simple...whether we all agree or not: "Stop the Knock"

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12-05-2005 04:27 PM  12 years agoPost 36
webbhost

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england - Leicester

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as far as im aware, a speed limit means you cant go faster than the specified speed, but is it not also mentioned when you learn to drive, that if the road or weather conditions are bad, you should go under the specified speed limit, to keep the car in a safe manner?

Going at 40mph in "heavy snow" doesnt sound like a good idea, and he probably pulled you over at the descretion that he thought you was going too fast for the current road/weather conditions.

You never know, if he didn't pull you over, you may have been in a hospital right now? Not likely but it happens. Most accidents tend to happen in bad weather, and he probably pulled you over for your own safety too.

meh

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12-05-2005 07:15 PM  12 years agoPost 37
TurboRacer

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CT

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. I drive a Jeep Grand Cherokee with 4 wheel drive, so i pass him in the center lane.
Hahahahaa... I love that mentality. 4 wheel drive doesn't mean your car handles better at highway speeds, it means you're less likely to get stuck in mud/sand/snow.

You're an idiot if you think 4x4 is going to help you when you start sliding sideways across a snow covered highway.

You're the person that I laugh at when you pass people in the snow doing 60 in your soccer-mom mobile, and 2 miles down the road you're laying sideways in a ditch. hahahahahaaa

I would of given you a ticket too just because you're stupid

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12-05-2005 07:34 PM  12 years agoPost 38
rkeith2

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Norco, CA

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kab1sg

Excellent comments -

To add a little. Most traffic "Cops" get to see the results of drivers who are not truly in command of their vehicles and have exceeded the safe limits in different conditions.

Yes the sign said 55 or better and then the rain starts that turned to slush or even ice and then you and the others around you need to decide WHAT the new limit safely needs to be.

I never really liked citations for moving violations and ruining someones morning -

I really hated seeing the carnage when some thought they could handle speed and wreckless driving when more than themselves were in the vehicle.

Not trying to chastise or justify here - just enjoying a thread.


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12-05-2005 09:59 PM  12 years agoPost 39
Bill Collins

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Middletown, CT. U.S.A.

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Thanks for the clearing that up kab1sg. That's what I get for listening to friends who say they know cops!!! I am all for the "Stop the knock". As a driver, I see some stupid things out there. Too many times I see soccer moms do dumb things with their kids in the car. Snow included. See earlier posts Anyway, let us know how you make out with your ticket. Bill





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12-05-2005 11:32 PM  12 years agoPost 40
sixeven

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Ft. Myers Florida

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This is the most important message of this thread....
there are many drivers with above average skills out there. Some even have extensive training and racing experience. When racing, you are on a track with other trained drivers, licensed to race (having met a minimum acceptable skill level). that is not the case on the roadways. It's usually not the good drivers that cause accidents; they just get caught up in someone's mistakes.
That sums up the basic problem. Maybe you have some spiked tire winter rally car that can go 100 MPH+ in the snow. That still doesn't help you when Elmer pulls out in front of you with his 30 foot Cadillac!

SiXeVeN

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HelicopterOff Topics › Unjust Police stop!!!!!!!!!!!
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