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HelicopterMain Discussion › Header Tank......I announce a new Idea!
12-01-2005 04:36 PM  12 years agoPost 21
Leif

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USA

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The bladder concept also would eliminate the need for a clunk line, as a bladder would contain only fuel and no air.

The only problem that I see is the pressure variations you would get with a bladder in different orientations. Fuel in a rigid tank can slosh to the bottom and the clunk also picks up at that point regardless of orientation. This way the weight of fuel pressing on the outlet only changes gradually as the tank empties.

With a bladder, you need to have at least one rigid point (the exit line) connected to the heli frame. As a result, the line will sometimes be pulling fuel from the top of the tank and sometimes from the bottom as the model orientation changes. This would be the case even if you let the bladder flop around inside a rigid tank or use a diaphragm tank. In this type of setup a fuel pump or pressurization system would be required.

Leif

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12-01-2005 05:29 PM  12 years agoPost 22
ESWLFSE

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Liberty Hill, TX

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Gas boat modelers use IV bags for fuel tanks. I was thinking the bladder would remain inside the actual tank and with pressure around it. Would be such an easy retrofit if someone could find one that would hold up to nitro.

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12-01-2005 05:51 PM  12 years agoPost 23
Coloradoheli3d

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Colorado USA

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What I gather is the point of this string is that the originator wouldn't pay $25 for a header tank, but would pay $25 for a header tank in th emain tank. I do believe due to manufacturing costs that would cost more than $25. So in my oppinion the solution is to buy a cheaper header tank TSK has one for $15 and Hayes has one for $3.50.

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12-01-2005 05:56 PM  12 years agoPost 24
Leif

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USA

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Gas boat modelers use IV bags for fuel tanks.
Yes, but those boats don't do stall-turns or putter along "inverted". My point was that if the bag is hanging from the pickup line, you'll be sucking fuel upwards through the bag. If the heli is subsequently inverted, the bag will be above the pickup line and you'll subsequently get a lot more pressure from the weight of fuel.

If you've got "pressure all around" the bag, where is that coming from? For a pressurized system to produce consistent flow, the pressure has to be significantly higher than the fuel weight.

Leif

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12-01-2005 08:05 PM  12 years agoPost 25
airdodger

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Johnston USA

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Bladder tanks use no pickup line inside the tank, just the bung has a line inside. The bladder envelops the inside of the hard tank and is wrapped around the outside neck, it is not attached to the pickup line. The pressure is around the outside bladder and I have never experienced any lean condition in pattern planes or pylon. The new YS DZ does not tolerate any bubbles at all because it uses a mechanical pump and if bubbles appear the engine shuts off, and I never had that happen. The engines come with a pickup like the fuel magnet and have the same problems, hence the reason to run the bladder. You have to be very careful that you fill the tank with no air left inside.The bladder collapses as if you were squeezing a toothpaste tube, they are very consistent from start to finish. The pressure comes from muffler pressure or crankcase pressure. Chris

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12-01-2005 08:28 PM  12 years agoPost 26
Jeff Greunke

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Northwest Ohio

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While were talking about modifying tanks, how about making them bigger Seems like just when your getting warmed up, it's time to land already

Raptor 30, Raptor 50, Raptor 50#2, E620

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12-01-2005 08:29 PM  12 years agoPost 27
George Matthews

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N.W. Ohio

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Lean her out dude (TwoTurn)

George Matthews

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12-01-2005 08:59 PM  12 years agoPost 28
Jeff Greunke

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Northwest Ohio

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Hey Georg when did they let you on this forum

Raptor 30, Raptor 50, Raptor 50#2, E620

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12-01-2005 09:05 PM  12 years agoPost 29
w.pasman

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Netherlands

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As several noted: please present your plans for the plumbing layout (drawing?).
It has to be practical which apparently needs some clever ideas.

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12-01-2005 11:37 PM  12 years agoPost 30
BARTGALAMBOS

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Huntsville, Alabama! U. S. A.

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Lots of answers and Brainstorming! I'm Impressed!

Wow,

I think this post was one that brings out the best in people.

I have header tanks and I don't remember what I paid, but it was not $25.00, because there is no way I'll pay that. It just got me thinking about all the plumbing that's all. If it weren't for the clunk I guess it would be possible. Maintaining the clunk is the problem.

I do like the bladder idea. I rarely use the fuel contained in the header tank, because once it's not full, it starts foaming like the main tank. I just want to reduce all the plumbing and I thought it might be possible to have a tank within a tank molded in along with most of the plumbing.

I have 2 helicopters and 6 airplanes, along with all the video equipment. I have spent a small fortune on this stuff, but $25 for a small tank is just plain stupid. AND a ripoff. EOM

Bart

Precious Metal Investor!!!

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12-02-2005 03:59 AM  12 years agoPost 31
roys55

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USA

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I have a 2 0z Hays fuel tank hot-glued on the side of my Caliber 30 main tank. I roughened up the plastic on both tanks where the surfaces contact with 80 grit sandpaper and lay on some hot-glue, hold together for a few seconds, done. I tried to get them apart, I think the plastic would tear first. Its been together for 6 months or more with many tanks run through. Still no sign of letting go. Makes for a clean looking set-up also, no brakets. I'll post a picture next monday in my gallery. It looks like what Bartgalambos is looking for. The glue stick I use is light brown in color and I let the glue gun get to it maximum temperture before I apply the glue. Works like a charm. I tried some silicon sealer before the hot glue, it did not hold well enough.

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12-02-2005 04:01 AM  12 years agoPost 32
spritefiend

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Camarillo, CA

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roys55: thats pretty clever.

get a glue gun, stick of gloo, few bucks on a tank by itself and you have your 2 in 1

edit:

BARTGALAMBOS a good mount will last forever(aside from maybe an unlucky crash), then all you will need to worry about is the tank itself, and i cant imagine needing to go through those like skittles.

however roys55 idea'r is pretty creative, cheap mount, lasts a long time etc.

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12-02-2005 06:00 AM  12 years agoPost 33
alvinrc

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Mobile, AL, USA

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Pregnant Ideas

I have a Hayes two ounce header tank doubble side stickey taped to main tank on a TSK Mystar 46. Was not a real handy place to mount a bracket. Found some real stickey stuff in the RC car section made by bolink I think and it stays stuck good even in nasty oily environment.

Before the official header tank things came on the market, used to use a round two ounce sullivan tank held on chopper with a tunned pipe mount. Little black plastic gizzmo mount with mounting stud and with an O ring to strap on tank with.

But, I would be happy if they would work on a better never leak fuel tank and come up with some fuel tubeing that would hold up much better for the clunk line.

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12-02-2005 01:45 PM  12 years agoPost 34
pinoy

rrVeteran

Muncie, Indiana USA/Obando, Bulacan Philippines

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As for the header tank, I just buy the cheaper (but i think is actually better) version by thunder tiger that I'm fairly sure it didn't cost me $25. I went ahead and made my own carrier for it made out of carbon fiber that I've been using for a while now and never had any problem with it. I'll post a picture of it ASAP.

As for the bladder tank, We've using those for our combat planes and never had any problem with it also. Our combat planes had been speed clocked at least 90 miles per hour and with it turning left and right, up and down loop name it, with the plane not bleeding any speed and the bladder tank never produce a bubble to the engine. I thought about this before instead of installing a bladder tank but the bladder tank also let me know how much fuel I got left so never did continue with the idea of having the bladder tank but I'm sure it will work. Imagine no clunk to worry about if you use the baldder tank.

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12-04-2005 01:39 AM  12 years agoPost 35
alvinrc

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Mobile, AL, USA

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Tetra I think it was, used to make baldder tanks for the planks.
They were kind of expensive. That would not be a problem for us, just put a few purple anodized fittings on it.
Don't know if they are still available or not.

Had a rigid outer tank sort of like a regular fuel tank and bladder went inside all attached to fuel tank stopper that included the fuel line that went to carb.
The vent went to rigid part of tank and allowed air to come into tank between rigid outer tank and inner bladder. So was not possible for air to be in with fuel.
No air in with fuel would not allow fuel foaming and exhaust contaminants would not get in with fuel if running tank vent to muffler pressure.

Must be some down side to this or we would see them in use for choppers. Can't think what it would be.

Someone ought to get a Tetra tank or rig up something and try it.

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HelicopterMain Discussion › Header Tank......I announce a new Idea!
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