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HelicopterMain Discussion › Header Tank......I announce a new Idea!
12-01-2005 02:08 AM  12 years agoPost 1
BARTGALAMBOS

rrVeteran

Huntsville, Alabama! U. S. A.

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Folks,
I was in my LHS today and they were selling a Header Tank for over $25.00

Folks---a piece of plastic with a small metal mount.

OK---this is what I want from the Industry or as an aftermarket product.

***A header tank built within the main tank***

If you agree? Please respond and lets get someone more ambitious than me, to get this going. Why should we have two tanks clogging up our fine looking machines.

I would pay $25.00 for a main tank with a header tank built in, but I will not pay $25.00 for just a header tank....

End of story......

Bart

Precious Metal Investor!!!

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12-01-2005 02:09 AM  12 years agoPost 2
spritefiend

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Camarillo, CA

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so your talking about a single tank, thats seperated and fed from the "main" tank into the 2nd section ie "header tank" ??

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12-01-2005 02:19 AM  12 years agoPost 3
BARTGALAMBOS

rrVeteran

Huntsville, Alabama! U. S. A.

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Yes Sir,

A tank within a tank!

Bart

Precious Metal Investor!!!

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12-01-2005 02:22 AM  12 years agoPost 4
spritefiend

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Camarillo, CA

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sounds like a decent idea.

im curious, were you thinking of expanding the regular tank 2oz or so, so that you dont cut INTO the original size of the main tank?

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12-01-2005 02:36 AM  12 years agoPost 5
SteveH

rrProfessor

Texas

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The main reason for using a header tank is to prevent bubbles in the fuel from getting to the carb. There may be bubbles in the main tank because it is usually rigidly mounted in a heli. If you make a section of the main tank into a header tank, a tank within the main tank, it will be subjected to the same vibration from ridgid mounting as the main tank.

So, with that said, my personal opinion is it won't do what a header tank is suposed to do.

The government cannot give you anything without first taking it from someone else.

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12-01-2005 02:46 AM  12 years agoPost 6
Leif

rrElite Veteran

USA

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Not all heli models these days use rigid-mounted main tanks, and I've yet to see someone with a floating mount for a header tank. I don't think vibration would be an issue here.

What would be an issue is manufacturing. A tank-within-tank design is VERY difficult to make due to the complex geometry. Then there's the issue of reduced main tank volume from this setup.

It would be nice if the heli manufacturers would integrate a mount into the frame designed specifically for the header tank. The 2 oz Hayes tank is practically an industry-standard used by most aftermarket vendors. It shouldn't be that hard to identify an optimum location for mounting this tank and including the necessary mounting hardware in the kit.

Leif

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12-01-2005 05:41 AM  12 years agoPost 7
Gadgets

rrApprentice

South Africa

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I would buy it.





I see plank flyers!!!

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12-01-2005 06:01 AM  12 years agoPost 8
Tailspinner

rrVeteran

JAMAICA, NY

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Leif has the right idea. How much would it cost to include a plastic bracket? I think the cost to the manufacturer would be minimal. C'mon, give us what we want!!

.

Are you on the list?

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12-01-2005 06:03 AM  12 years agoPost 9
marked23

rrKey Veteran

Lynnwood, WA

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I would buy it... and still use another header tank.

-Mark

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12-01-2005 06:09 AM  12 years agoPost 10
shuttlepilot

rrElite Veteran

Mullins, South Carolina

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I think that would be great too. You know just about any 2 oz tank with a dab of silicon will make you a great header tank for less than 5 bucks. It may not look quite as "pretty", but is every bit as functional.

Gas is Great
Camper Fuel is Better!!
QWW Helis

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12-01-2005 06:37 AM  12 years agoPost 11
ESWLFSE

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Liberty Hill, TX

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How about a tank with a bladder in it and no header tank at all?

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12-01-2005 06:50 AM  12 years agoPost 12
Yug

rrMaster

UK. Herts

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Awww I dunno. I prefer a remote tank for several reasons.
1) you can see how much fuel is knocking around and where
2) It can be lined up with the carb easily
3) It can be moved around to balance CG if required
4) It looks cool
5) It is useful as part of my fuel sensor mechanism.

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12-01-2005 08:33 AM  12 years agoPost 13
alvinrc

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Mobile, AL, USA

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Been Done Before

I have seen this idea used before a few years ago.

A two ounce round sullivan tank was installed inside one of those round specimen bottle type tanks like on the old Heliboys, Superiors, and Champions.

You cut a hole in bottom of main tank. That would be the front of tank when mounted in chopper.
Cap unscrews from top of main tank (rear of tank when mounted) to allow insertion of two ounce tank.
Attached to hole in main tank with some combination of the compression rubber stopper and the round plastic compression plate to seal it all up.

Idea never became too popular, so must have not been much to it.
The external header tank much better for maintenance and you do get the extra capacity and is better seen for checking how low fuel level is in header tank.

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12-01-2005 09:56 AM  12 years agoPost 14
hepsibar

rrApprentice

Perth WA

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I use a floating header tank mount on my raptor60/90.

It is the quick uk metal mount with the mounting hole drilled out. I inserted a soft rubber grommit in the hole and washer each side. This allows a small amount of vibration damping for the header.

It is easy to do but the quick uk header is very expensive if you make a pigs ear of the mod.

You have to relly on the fuel plumbing to stop the header spining on the grommit.

It works fine in practice.

Empty Coffee Cup

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12-01-2005 11:40 AM  12 years agoPost 15
davehour

rrElite Veteran

Guayama, Puerto Rico 00785

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It would be nice if the plastic dampened mount that comes with some header tanks (KSJ and TT for example) comes with two mounting holes instead of one. That would prevent the header tank from rotating in the upper mounting hole axis, and would be better attached to the frame.

David

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12-01-2005 12:20 PM  12 years agoPost 16
Paulie

rrApprentice

Waterford, MI

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I believe the Caliber 5 coming out in February comes with a stock header tank. It is not part of the main tank but at least they realize the importance of one and the importance of providing an ideal location.

From what I understand, a header tank is used not only to help eliminate bubbles but also to keep a constant fuel-air mixture in the carburetor. It does this by virtue of the needle valve seeing the "same level" of fuel (or at least close to the same level) throughout the entire run. If one uses only a main tank, the fuel level in the tank has much more of an influence of change to the fuel-air mixture as the tank becomes empty.

Years ago Briggs & Stratton used a simple carb setup where the main jet literally went straight from the venturi to the bottom of the tank, with a needle valve to regulate the fuel - air ratio. This was called the vacu-jet carburetor and was used on many a lawnmower. It was found that as the tank emptied, the mixture got leaner because the tank was below the venturi and it required more suction to get the fuel to travel up the main jet.

The next revision to this carb was called the pulse jet. This carb setup had a tank within a tank, where the gas from the main tank is pumped into a "header" tank and the main jet is located in the header tank. This allows for a more consistent run because the main jet only sees the header tank. I believe they still use this setup today.

So Bart, here is a similar example to what you are getting at, a tank within a tank.


Paulie

There's nothing like the sound of a tortured Stratocaster.

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12-01-2005 01:08 PM  12 years agoPost 17
webbhost

rrKey Veteran

england - Leicester

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a tank within a tank would require 2 fuel clunk lines still if you want your headertank full... having a tank within a tank, is going to make it extremely hard to get access to the second clunkline.

good idea through

meh

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12-01-2005 02:52 PM  12 years agoPost 18
Disciple4123

rrKey Veteran

USA

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Aside from the consideration suggested of a tank within a tank; if the cost of $25 is considered excessive (which it is). I would use a 2.6oz weedeater oil mix bottle from the hardware store with fuel fittings on the cap as a header for under $10. Assemble and CA glue the cap on. Or you can buy a clear nalgene bottle from an industial supplier (and fuel fittings) fur under $10. I do not run a header, but value the concept.

Another innovation I'd like to see is integral fuel fittings, fo example a tank without fuel nuts to seep or loosen, just have the 1/8" fittings blown into the tank at the right spots with a double sided one for the clunk. Then a screw on cap could be placed on top to assemble the internals. Oozing fuel seems to be more of a problem on gassers than nitro for me, but having a damp tank exterior is a bother.

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12-01-2005 03:08 PM  12 years agoPost 19
TMoore

rrMaster

Cookeville, TN

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The header tank that I used to use on my Caliber was just a Pylon 2oz unit on a bracket that I fabbed up. Cost was less than 5 bucks.

A tank within a tank is just more work for little/no gain.

Just think how you would do tank maintenance.

TM

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12-01-2005 03:14 PM  12 years agoPost 20
bobkins

rrApprentice

Bocholt, Belgium

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Hi,

Altimat his idea makes much more sense to me than a header tank built within the main tank. There would be no possibillity to get air in the engine since the bladder only contains fuel and maybe the tank fuel lines would hold up longer since there aren't any exhaust gasses.

Greets Rob

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HelicopterMain Discussion › Header Tank......I announce a new Idea!
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