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HelicopterTurbine Helicopters › Header Tank
11-30-2005 09:20 AM  12 years agoPost 1
richie1967_uk

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London UK

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I have been thinking about installing a header tank on the predator, not because my flying skills demand it but because i want to reduce the chance of a flameout due to low fuel. I have noticed that because of the size of the felt clunk running the main tank lower much past quarter full makes the posibility of a bubble in the fuel line much higher. So who is running one? Which one are you using? or am i talking out of my a**e?

I am off to buy a large fuel can with electric pump, the novelty of pumping fuel by hand is wearing off!! My arm hasnt felt like this since i was a teenager!!!

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11-30-2005 10:00 AM  12 years agoPost 2
PETER ROB

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Devon UK

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Header Tank

Richie Most of the turbine flyers I know use a UAT header tank this has a special filter built in that does not allow any air to pass, get rid of the felt filter it is not advisable to use them because as they wear being thrown around the tank they produse micro fibers which can get into the fuel system, there is a small UAT filter that is the same size as your present filter, I am sure a word with Sara will sort you out, or HobbyParts stock the UAT header tank

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11-30-2005 10:35 AM  12 years agoPost 3
coolice

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Northamptonshire, England

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Hey Richie,

To start with when I first started flying the Predator I didn't use one and on a couple of occasions nearing the end of the tank in circuits, I swear I heard a splutter.
Of course we know even a small fuel delivery break will stop a turbine and so I am not entirely sure, but still worrying.

Then Mike Bailey kindly gave me a BVM UAT, which I duly fitted and got very good service from it.
I have since brought another one, just as a precaution as I wanted to replace the filter, but these cannot be brought seperatly.

Once purged of all air, normally this takes a few fills to do so, it supplys a constant stream of fuel to the engine no matter which way the model is. At the same time stopping any air bubbles from entering the fuel line.
The purging can be a pain and normally even after a few tanks, the very first inverted session I have still disslodges a bubble and poof! But I know it's gonna happen and so go very high.

WREN are not that keen on UAT's, quoting that some Turbine users have had problems with them and advocate just a normal header tank with 4mm outlet, that works just as well as a header.

But, a lot of the top jet guys use BVM UAT's and I know mine works well. They are not cheap at about £55 over here, but worth it for security.

P.S. The small UAT style filter mentioned above, Terry Lee at WREN makes some up, but I am yet to have one from him... meanie!
.

Ian Contessa
Team Robbe SchluterUK
Midland Helicopters

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11-30-2005 11:34 AM  12 years agoPost 4
richie1967_uk

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London UK

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one UAT tank ordered....thank you

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11-30-2005 01:49 PM  12 years agoPost 5
Bell Bloke

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UK

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I don't use a header tank, no probs so far.

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11-30-2005 02:57 PM  12 years agoPost 6
wolfdad

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Southern Maryland

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Jack,
Some very interesting information and you are doing precisely the same thing as my set-up for the BK. In talking to Al, he said that Peter recommends no UAT and no filtration other than the felt clunk pick-up with the Jaka's due to the low volume fuel supply.

Doc

"There are those who have...and, those who will" IRCHA #2117, AMA #70068, Turbine Waiver #105

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11-30-2005 05:22 PM  12 years agoPost 7
WIRLYBIRD

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CAPE TOWN / SOUTH AFRICA.

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UAT

Hi guy's,
Have read more people having problems with a UAT, than those who don't use them, have long since removed mine, and run with the felt clunks x 2 in my helli.Certainly I fly mine very scale, nothing fancy, and touch wood, haven't had any issues!!
Best regards,
Dave.

WHAT GOES UP MUST SURELY COME DOWN.

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11-30-2005 06:49 PM  12 years agoPost 8
wolfdad

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Southern Maryland

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Phil,
I can't speak for Dave, however the two things I have consistently been told are that the UAT, being in itself, a filter, is not checked as frequently and becomes very restrictive as it clogs and, if one is not careful, the probability of getting a random air bubble when first using the UAT, is pretty high. Quite honestly, I've flown both ways, with and without and have not encountered any problems, however I know some folks that have and, as stated above, the Jaka folks strongly recommend against a UAT. I do know that Bob has a good product with the UAT's and I know they seem to work well with the Jetcats.

Doc

"There are those who have...and, those who will" IRCHA #2117, AMA #70068, Turbine Waiver #105

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11-30-2005 07:45 PM  12 years agoPost 9
Peter Wales

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Orlando Fl

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For the record all of my turbine helis have UATs on them. I have never had a flameout.

My turbine Cuatro was upside down on itsa first flight with no mishap. I rely on them to filter bubbles and crap from the fuel, and it works

Peter Wales
http://scalehelicopters.org

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11-30-2005 08:45 PM  12 years agoPost 10
jkru

rrApprentice

Seattle, WA

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You mean people are flying without header tank? IMHO that’s unnecessary risk. BVM header tank is my choice. The last thing you need is an air bubble in a wrong maneuver...

JKru

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11-30-2005 10:01 PM  12 years agoPost 11
PETER ROB

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Devon UK

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I fly with UAT on some machines and on other machines where restricted for space without, as long as the instructions supplied with the UAT are followed there should not be a problem, when using the UAT as a filter it is advisable to check the UAT membrane to see if it is collecting any thing like the firbes off the felt clunks, if you use them, I have found that good filltration from the fuel can means you do not need any other extra filters in the system and you can use large bore standard clunks and fittings

This is the system I am useing at present with Jet A1 and 2Stroke mixture

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11-30-2005 10:06 PM  12 years agoPost 12
gonzalom

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Northern California

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I used for a while the UAT with no issues..... then i was strongly reccomend by Al Wert and Len Mount not to use them with the jako turbines..... I been using the felt clunk for over a year without any issue at all. I only do scale flying with my turbines.

Regards,

Gonzalo

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12-01-2005 12:48 AM  12 years agoPost 13
wolfdad

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Southern Maryland

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Gonzalo,
That was the same word I had from Al and, what he told me was that the deal on the UAT came from Peter and, was due to the way the engine was designed with a low rate of fuel flow.

Hey! UAT or not to UAT...that is the question and it is up to whomever to answer it for themselves.

And, Peter, as Greg said was the inverted situation on purpose?? LOL

wolfdad sends....

"There are those who have...and, those who will" IRCHA #2117, AMA #70068, Turbine Waiver #105

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12-01-2005 03:13 AM  12 years agoPost 14
Peter Wales

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Orlando Fl

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Yes it was and the heli was going backwards as well, but I'll never admit it

Peter Wales
http://scalehelicopters.org

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12-01-2005 07:52 AM  12 years agoPost 15
wolfdad

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Southern Maryland

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What Greg said....doubled....you sly old dog you, Peter.

wolfdad sends.....

"There are those who have...and, those who will" IRCHA #2117, AMA #70068, Turbine Waiver #105

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12-01-2005 10:13 AM  12 years agoPost 16
richie1967_uk

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London UK

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Thanks for all the info guys. I have not had any problems with air bubbles with the set up i have now. (Main tank with felt clunk and filter between solenoid and turbine). However because of the size of the clunk and the fact that it doesnt sit flat on the floor of the tank makes me loathed to run the tank lower than 1 quarter full just incase any part of the clunk was not to be submerged. It means flight times are less and since i am pumping fuel by hand i am trying to get a little more flying out of a tank.

Talking of pumping fuel, i went to buy an orbit fuel station yesterday....unfortunately they were out of stock. What they did have was some MAH dual taper 810mm blades, boy am i and easy touch.... I am 140 quid lighter today, however i have some sweet looking blades on my heli now!! Anyone else tried them? I read on a previous post that they weighed around 230 grammes. Well i weighed mine and they are more like 270! Will try and give them a test later today....

Also i need to get hold of some 8mm carbon tube to make some longer boom supports, Anyone have a good supplier or is it a trip to the local kite shop for me? I thought us RC modellers were a strange bunch....those kite flying dudes are wierd.....

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12-01-2005 10:16 AM  12 years agoPost 17
wolfdad

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Southern Maryland

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That's what I love about this hobby....go to the store to get one thing and, it's out of stock, however we still come home broke anyway...LOL.

On the carbon rod material, I am sure you have somebody much closer to home, however I have had a lot of very good luck with Central Hobby for such items here in the states. If you run out of airspeed and ideas, give them a shot.

wolfdad sends....

"There are those who have...and, those who will" IRCHA #2117, AMA #70068, Turbine Waiver #105

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12-01-2005 11:19 AM  12 years agoPost 18
bladebender

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England, Central

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Im using UATs.

Seem to work well.

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12-01-2005 01:11 PM  12 years agoPost 19
Bell Bloke

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UK

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At 270grams your rpm should be 1500rpm, this will give you the same headloading as with the old 710s.
If you want to push it a bit you could run to 1600rpm this would give you a head loading of 313kg. The known safe limit at the moment is 275kg on the head, although I've pushed mine to 375kg and have flown for 2hrs on that loading, by mistake I might say!

I'm getting a bit anal about me head loadings these days......sorry about that.
Just keeping you up to date.

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12-01-2005 01:30 PM  12 years agoPost 20
richie1967_uk

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London UK

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Hey Ross, thanks for doing the maths, 1500 rpm is about where i want to be....

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HelicopterTurbine Helicopters › Header Tank
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