RunRyder RC
 12  Topic Subscribe
WATCH
 9 pages [ <<    <     7      8     ( 9 )    >    >> ] 7743 views
HelicopterMain Discussion › "Commercial Pilot not a proffession?!?! Like being a bus driver"
12-01-2005 05:15 PM  12 years agoPost 161
Helinutnz

rrElite Veteran

below 42 South

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

correct.
Time.
It is a fact....ask any pilot (who's actually there and not a flt sim expert) what they got paid in their first job. Many factors are present determining rate of pay. Is it a low cost carrier? what part of the world is it in? what size aircraft?......etc etc. But one thing for sure is return of service and responsibility. The Captain gets the highest pay because he/she has the major responsibility on his/her shoulders. The first officer is second in command and is still likely to be invited into the chief pilots office for tea and bickies alongside the captain if there is an incident although overall responsibility does not fall on his/her shoulders and the pay is less. A second officer or supernumery pilot is yet again further down the money tree.

The point is you don't start in an airline environment on the captains salary. Unfortunately the economic outlook and fuel prices are driving low cost carriers.....any demand for new pilots when there are new keen people out there willing to pay for ratings etc drive the salaries down. (over supply versus under demand)
When the supply of pilots is low....of course the salaries will rise in order to attract experienced people.

All that being the case......you gain a pilots licence and a commercial.....do your time in a turbo prop with less than exciting pay and move up to the major airlines. The first step in a major Airline will more than likely be a large jump in salarty from the commuter airlines unless you have been a training captain maybe. Unfortunately the general public will think you are on a massive salary even if you wear only 2 gold braids on your sleeve.

Get an F/O's or Captains position in a widebody or even a narrow body jet and then compare this to the bus drivers salary....I am sure they will not be the same.

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
12-01-2005 05:26 PM  12 years agoPost 162
Flyinrazrback

rrVeteran

Fort Smith, AR

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Best place IMO for a new guy to start is the Air National Guard or Reserve. Best flight training bar none, and free. Fly something cool part time, and something else the rest. Myself is leaving active duty for the guard.

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
12-01-2005 07:24 PM  12 years agoPost 163
Sky 5

rrNovice

Spring Hill, Tn

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Median expected salary of a typical Jet Captain/Small jet = $97,116
After how many years of service? He probably sat reserve for a year, then he sat in the right seat for three to eight years, so after maybe ten years of service he makes $97,116. and that is about to change (for the worse).
Not my numbers. If guys are going to spout out here at least have something to back it up.
I'm backing my spouting with experience not statistcs. If you believe statistics a flight instructor makes $40,000 a year. The good ol days in the airline industry are gone. A ten year pilot makes about the same as a ten year over the road truck driver.

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
12-01-2005 10:09 PM  12 years agoPost 164
Heli88

rrKey Veteran

Clarkston, MI

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

OK there tiger...whatever you say. Maybe it's time for a career change for you?

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
12-01-2005 11:14 PM  12 years agoPost 165
capfo

rrApprentice

Texas

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

GEEZ, I can't believe I'm getting drawn into this thread AGAIN!

Actually Heli88, I think Sky5 has a point but he should qualify his statement that those salaries that he's talking about are only true for someone that has found themselves unable to advance beyond a regional airline.

It certainly is not indicative of a major airline, even in todays economy. Hell, I would have quite a LONG time ago if it was.

The median salary for a jet Capt that you state in your previous post is about what a 10 year F/O at my company earns.



Chris
Trex 450 v2
MaxiJoker 2

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
12-01-2005 11:56 PM  12 years agoPost 166
Avropilot

rrVeteran

Murfreesboro, Tennessee

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Actually Heli88, I think Sky5 has a point but he should qualify his statement that those salaries that he's talking about are only true for someone that has found themselves unable to advance beyond a regional airline.
Unable to advance? Not knocking you but hell if you wanna spend 10,000 dollars of your own cash just in hopes of an interview and your odds are slim and none well then your unable to advance. This occupation has imploded on itself and I have found myself at the bottom of it trying to raise three daughters. To anyone trying to become a commercial pilot take this advice. Tell your momma your a piano player in a whorehouse at least she'll know you have steady work.

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
12-02-2005 12:02 AM  12 years agoPost 167
capfo

rrApprentice

Texas

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I certainly didn't mean it in a derogatory manner. "Unable to advance" could be due to any number of factors.

I'm not sure what you're getting at about the $10,000 though.



Chris
Trex 450 v2
MaxiJoker 2

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
12-02-2005 12:12 AM  12 years agoPost 168
Flyinrazrback

rrVeteran

Fort Smith, AR

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

How many of you folks actually fly for a living? I know I wouldnt give advice about the medical profession not being in it.

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
12-02-2005 12:14 AM  12 years agoPost 169
Helinutnz

rrElite Veteran

below 42 South

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

she's a hard road anywhere you do it. Why do we do it? Well firstly you have to love flying. The money doesn't tend to come till later in your career if you make it there medically. When you do then it's still a great lifestyle with a good income. Regional carriers are the stepping stone to the larger companies where you will find better salaries.

Flight instuctors make play money unfortunately.......and that is why they are not retained. It is a very important role and is not paid well.

This is easily explained by three words.

BUMS ON SEATS.

the more you have the more money you get.
There are three golden rules in Aviation. no1. persist
no 2.persist and if all that fails then no 3. persist. If you aren't willing to do that then you will not make it. Only one person can decide if it's all worth it in the end........

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
12-02-2005 04:33 AM  12 years agoPost 170
Sky 5

rrNovice

Spring Hill, Tn

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Ok..ok this is my last word on this subject, this is like beating a dead cat. If you have made it big in aviation as a pilot and enjoy the life style a sincere congratulations.
In my humble opinion the airlines is not the proverbial brass ring regardless of which level you are at as a pilot, though it may seem like it when you first start out in this career. Money isn't everything. At some point you are going to start thinking about quality of life if you haven't already. I've always told my wife that the airlines are for young single guys that can get everything they own in the trunk of their car.
I think Sky5 has a point but he should qualify his statement that those salaries that he's talking about are only true for someone that has found themselves unable to advance beyond a regional airline.
If you make it or have made it to one of the legacy carriers enjoy it while you can. The regionals are taking more of your flying every day. Give it another few years and the legacy airlines will only be flying international routes. If your in the industry you already know this is happening. Just before Delta filed bankruptcy they gave 12 flights a day out of Orlando to Mesa Air Group. Thats just one example off the top off my head, there are many more. Colgan was given several of Continentals routes out of Houston about a year ago. Yes, I know this is all regional stuff but what about those 737's that are being replaced by RJ's and the 75/76/77's parked out there in the Arizona desert? The majors could'nt make and money with them.
The bar has been lowered and it ain't going back up. You have low wages, low benifits and a lousy retirement plan. If you haven't made it to the majors you better hurry while there still is one (or two).

I leave you with a pilot joke:

A woman calls the police: There is a naked pilot in my front yard.
Police: Ma'am, how do you know it's a pilot?
Woman: Because he has a little pecker, a big watch and he's stealing my "USA Today" newspaper.

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
12-02-2005 04:55 AM  12 years agoPost 171
capfo

rrApprentice

Texas

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Sky 5,

You sound a little bitter.

Certainly there is a shake out going on but the legacy carriers are anything but dead. Yes, some of them will be gone but the ones that are left will stay at the top just as they did when Pan Am, Eastern and TWA went away.

I agree that the industry is changing but you are fooling yourself if you think the regionals are taking over. Colgan was given Continental Express routes, Not Continental routes. Both major RJ manufactures have announced termination of production of the RJs and Continental just recently announced that they intend to reduce the number of RJs they lease via the capacity purchase agreement they signed when they sold off Express Jet.

My company hasn't parked a single aircraft and in fact just purchased several used 757's from another carrier. Yes, we are turning more towards the international routes but that's a good thing for the pilots, not a bad thing, as you imply. We are expanding into those markets which means more international wide body opportunity for the junior pilots that typically have needed far more time with the company to advance into those positions. How do you see that as a bad thing?



Chris
Trex 450 v2
MaxiJoker 2

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
12-02-2005 05:02 AM  12 years agoPost 172
Flingwing Pilot

rrApprentice

Centerville, Georgia USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Piloting as a Profession

This thread seems to have gotten side tracked, but it sure has stirred up a lot of interest. It reminds me of the discussions which always occur when egos take over and the argument about who the best trained pilots happen to be.I have occasionally sat in a lounge and listened to pilots argue. Are the military or civilians better trained? Does it take more skill and courage to fly jet airplanes or helicopters? Why do Air Force helicopter pilots remain out of tightly surrounded field sites and almost always fly multiengine helicopters while their Army counterparts fly single engine helicopters into and out of tight spaces and constantly practice Nap of the Earth techniques? Is high performance large engines and flights onto long runways or is it how slow can it fly and how short can it land? Why don't we just recognize that the individual conducting the flight is a professional and forego all of the bickering? As for me, if you own it and you allow me to fly it, you must consider me a "professional" person or you are not very bright nor is your insurance company. For all of the "professionals" no matter what aerial vehicle or vehicles you fly, I appreciate you so just let me know what airspace you are in and I will remain clear and do the same for you. Let's enjoy the flight (flights), as many as we can get.

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
12-02-2005 04:29 PM  12 years agoPost 173
Avropilot

rrVeteran

Murfreesboro, Tennessee

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

capfo

I was refering tho SWA and their type rating to get an interview.

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
12-03-2005 01:16 AM  12 years agoPost 174
Helinutnz

rrElite Veteran

below 42 South

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

yes it's a **** lifestyle.
I am in Fiji about to go sailing at my hotel the Denerau resort on a two day layover. I have just come from LA on a one night 2 day stopover after leaving the sunny shores of Tahiti on a three night stopover. When I get home I have ten days off. Got to take some of my 80 days leave owing from the 37 days a year I get. After that I am off to Hong Kong (great for Hirobo fans) on a quick three day trip. Got to spend some of the loot on some T rex parts and a few evo bits.

Sorry to sound a bit cynical but yes my quality of life in the airlines is very tough. By the way I have three kids and a home. Most of our guys/gals are not single guys/gals. I do miss my family while I am away but get plenty of quality time at home as well. Probably more so than the guy that heads off to the office at 6 am and returns home at 6 pm and works Saturday.

Not all Airline jobs are rubbish. We are not the best paid pilots worldwide in NZ but certainly live a nice lifestyle based on the cost of living there. I just don't think you should put others off this great career. It's a good job.

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
WATCH
 9 pages [ <<    <     7      8     ( 9 )    >    >> ] 7743 views
HelicopterMain Discussion › "Commercial Pilot not a proffession?!?! Like being a bus driver"
 Print TOPIC  Make Suggestion 

 12  Topic Subscribe

Tuesday, December 12 - 12:23 pm - Copyright © 2000-2017 RunRyder   EMAILEnable Cookies

Login Here
 New Subscriptions 
 Buddies Online