RunRyder RC
 1  Topic Subscribe
WATCH
 1 page 1013 views
HelicopterTurbine Helicopters › To Bodly Go
11-13-2005 11:14 AM  12 years agoPost 1
MattJen

rrElite Veteran

UK

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Hi All

Forgive the annorakky Star trek caption,

I am about to purchase a machine that has the Jetcat PHT3 turbine,

Is there any reference books on Turbines ? i am sure i have seen one on a shelf in a Model Shop,
i have done a couple of web searches over here in the Uk and cannot find a reference,

There was hellie mag advertised on Motors and Rotors but when i orderd it they told me Magazine not out yet! (so why put in on the web site to order!!!)

Any help would be apprecited, because beyond the basics i dont know much about them

many thanks

Matt

All The Best

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
11-13-2005 03:35 PM  12 years agoPost 2
WIRLYBIRD

rrVeteran

CAPE TOWN / SOUTH AFRICA.

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

PHT3

Hi Matt,
which helli are you looking at?
Best regards,
Dave,

WHAT GOES UP MUST SURELY COME DOWN.

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
11-13-2005 07:09 PM  12 years agoPost 3
1275mini

rrKey Veteran

Wirral North West U.K.

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

There is a couple on Ebay now !

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
11-13-2005 11:09 PM  12 years agoPost 4
MattJen

rrElite Veteran

UK

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

hi

Thanx for the posts,

i am looking to buy the Vario EC135, i saw it last week, and was very impressed,

Matt

All The Best

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
11-14-2005 04:15 AM  12 years agoPost 5
WIRLYBIRD

rrVeteran

CAPE TOWN / SOUTH AFRICA.

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

EC135

Hi Matt,
Look out for the tail fan system, it is useless!! check for the thread on RR, you'll find the guy's that make a replacement fan unit that works, made in France,
Best regards,
Dave.

WHAT GOES UP MUST SURELY COME DOWN.

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
11-14-2005 05:45 AM  12 years agoPost 6
heliVoY

rrVeteran

NJ

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

i believe the vario fenestron can be made to work well, but you need all the speed up gears ... i will be able to report on this one myself shortly. ... I flew the EC-135 once with the speed up gears on the mechanics, but none on the tail box itself, it it barel held hover .. i have ordered the speed up gears for the tail which will give me like 30% more tail power, which should be fine ...

Who in France makes Fenestrons ?? ( i dont want to hear about that crook Lars if thats who it is being refered to )


Wojtek

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
11-14-2005 07:45 AM  12 years agoPost 7
WIRLYBIRD

rrVeteran

CAPE TOWN / SOUTH AFRICA.

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Fenestron

Hi Wotjek,
Look for the thread, the main design problem is that the faster you run the Vario fan the worse it gets,the blades just lock up, as there are no thrust bearings.My friend has been through it all!!!
best regards,
Dave.

WHAT GOES UP MUST SURELY COME DOWN.

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
11-14-2005 08:31 AM  12 years agoPost 8
MattJen

rrElite Veteran

UK

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Whirly Bird

Can you qualify what you mean by useless as it is a bit of a sweeping statement ?

The Ec135 i am buying has the tail gear unit which increases the RPM to cope with the higher rpm of the Engine and thus increase the torque.

I assume the ones you have seen fly are either Xtreme Mechaincs,

the gear box unit is for Pertrol and Turbine

Matt

All The Best

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
11-14-2005 09:40 AM  12 years agoPost 9
WIRLYBIRD

rrVeteran

CAPE TOWN / SOUTH AFRICA.

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Fenestron

Hi Matt,
If it's the Vario system, thats the one I,m refering to, it's a disgrace for a firm of note!! if you do a search for the thread on RR you can read for yourself, but I'm just telling you the truth as it is, hopefully it will save your helli.
Best regards,
Dave.

WHAT GOES UP MUST SURELY COME DOWN.

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
11-14-2005 12:56 PM  12 years agoPost 10
Peter Wales

rrElite Veteran

Orlando Fl

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

The truth as your friend says it is.

The manufacturers maximum recommended speed on the fenestron is 9000 rpm. I have run one at 15000 rpm for an hour with no problems. The load on the TR servo does increase of course and you do need a powerful servo in there to control the tail.

The EC135 I have in England ran with the stock gearing at 8600 rpm and I used a 601 gyro which had way too little power to push the fenestron around, but it flew just fine. I dont know how!

We now recommend a speed up gearset for the Extreme / Gasser powerplants which speeds up the input shaft to the fenestron and runs it at 10000rpm. The turbine version can use a different set of gears in the TR gearbox to run it faster.

However, the French fenestron and the Swiss fenestron both have thrust races in them which take a lot of the load off the gears, but the biggest benefit comes from the fact that the gap between the blades and the housing is much reduced and that makes the fenestron much more efficient and powerful.

Peter Wales
http://scalehelicopters.org

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  Attn:RR  Quote
11-14-2005 01:43 PM  12 years agoPost 11
MattJen

rrElite Veteran

UK

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Hi Peter
many thaks to you and the other guy for posting,
i hope i did not come accross aggressively, as sometimes on this forum sweeping statements are made i have gone out and bought parts only to find there was nothing wrong orignally.

The gears you talk about, i assume these give you more tail authority,
my first question would be, would not changing the blades from the stock plastic to carbon blades give you more tail authority, ?

Also

The gears you talk about, do you have a part number and a location of where i can get them on line

Many thanks guys for the help

Matt J

All The Best

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
11-14-2005 06:45 PM  12 years agoPost 12
MattJen

rrElite Veteran

UK

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

HI
I FOUND THE POST, and this is what it says
it seems that the propblem was witht he xtreme and sky fox mechanics the Trubine version

Matt


Hi all,
heres a welcome tip to all that are having problems with
the fenestron tail on the Vario EC135 with Extreme mechanics.
After contacting Vario Germay direct, they sent me the set up
info.
From this it would seem the problem is the modern solid state
gyro.
When the heli is in the air, a piezo gyro sometimes limits the servo
travel which is causing the problem.
I set the tail servo arm to 15 mm from centre and on the Fenestron
end the link must be on the furthest hole out.
You must set the rudder servo ATV to 100%.
I first flew it with no gyro at all, and straight away I had full
tail authority which was as good as, if not better than a standard
two bladed set up.
It was quite easy to fly despite being gyro less, although it did swing a little bit
(note: I did learn to fly without a gyro, so if you've never tried
it be very careful!!!).
On Varios advice I put the most basic mechanical gyro I had on
the tail, set to about 40% gain.
ET VOILA!!!
Perfect tail control!!!!
If anyone would like me to email them the set up instructions I received
just ask, I would be glad to send them.

all the best, Steve.

All The Best

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
11-14-2005 07:24 PM  12 years agoPost 13
Peter Wales

rrElite Veteran

Orlando Fl

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

No problem Matt,

Contact Joe Howard at East Coast Scale helis. He has them in stock. These are for the Benzine and the Extreme mechs. I had them specially made to solve problems in these machines.

I also tested the CF blades against the plastic ones and found absolutely no difference in performance, and the CF ones dont look so nice.

One upgrade I did find effective, but hard work to do, was to use MS Eolo CF tail rotor blades and cut them down to fit closely in the housing. The problem is in cutting them down and what I had done was to make a fenestron assembly up and drive it with a powerful motor and a bunch of LiPos. I cut the blades down to a rough size with a dremel and then assembled them into the fenestron and ground them to size by spinning the fenestron up and holding some 60 grit sandpaper on them. Then I got a nice finish with220 grit wet and dry.

It made the stock fenestron quite a bit more effective at 9000 rpm.

Re your second post, I fly both my 135's in HH mode, with no problems at all.

Peter Wales
http://scalehelicopters.org

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  Attn:RR  Quote
11-14-2005 08:05 PM  12 years agoPost 14
MattJen

rrElite Veteran

UK

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Hi All

i have done alot of searchng through the forums and have found a mixed response,

One thing i have noticed through all the posts it seems to affect the Skfox,xtreme,mechaincs

I have spoken to a few others who like me fly the turbine version,

and they have no problems witht he tail, the turbine head speed is 1350, so i cannot see a problem with this, at the moment

i will speak to vario in the morning

Matt

All The Best

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
WATCH
 1 page 1013 views
HelicopterTurbine Helicopters › To Bodly Go
 Print TOPIC  Make Suggestion 

 1  Topic Subscribe

Thursday, January 18 - 6:02 am - Copyright © 2000-2017 RunRyder   EMAILEnable Cookies

Login Here
 New Subscriptions 
 Buddies Online