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HelicopterScale Model RC Helicopters › wich way does the swashplate tilt with forward cyclic in Robbe/schluter heli ?
11-12-2005 03:38 PM  12 years agoPost 1
erichevy

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Zevenhoven The Netherlands

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I'am confused because I've read in Ray's authoritative helicopter manual on page 14 photo #7:
The Robbe/Schluter Millennium is an exception to the usual cyclic input. Forward cyclic tilt's the swashplate forward AND right.

I fly with the Robbe Futura mechanics in a Hughes 300c scale with 3 bladed multihead.
I thought to have the same swashplate configuration.
With forward cyclic on my swashplate it tilt's forward AND LEFT.
When I spool the heli up (and pinned to the ground) and give forward cyclic, the disk goes forward and left!
Who's right and who's wrong. Could this be the reason that my Hughes fly's so different??
Eric.

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11-12-2005 04:29 PM  12 years agoPost 2
DenisS

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england

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The reason for the original 2 blade flybar head going only forwards and not to the left is that the wash-out unit is angled to compenstate for the 45 degree difference. With the three blade head you must adjust the swashplate driver with one blade over the tail boomso that the forward/backward stick movement does not make that one blade move. This means that the pushrod to that particular blade will not necessarily be at 90 degrees to the blade, (or the frames)as would be the case with a normal swashplate setup.
Not the clearest explanation but you are on the right track.
Denis

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11-12-2005 07:26 PM  12 years agoPost 3
erichevy

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I had the swashplatedriver adjusted so that with one blade over the tailboom and while giving elevator this blade doesn't move.
But still while spooling up, the rotordisk goes forward AND left with forward stick.
My point is that RAY'S manual states,
The Robbe/Schluter Millennium is an EXCEPTION to the usual cyclic input. Forward cyclic tilt's the swashplate forward AND right.
And my swashplate goes Left and Forward while steering forward!
The manual says to go forward and right.
Eric.

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11-12-2005 08:01 PM  12 years agoPost 4
fritzthecat

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Virginia Beach, VA

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On my Futura SE the swash goes forward and left with fwd cyclic.

Fritz


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11-12-2005 08:01 PM  12 years agoPost 5
DenisS

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england

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I have the Futura mechanics in a Royal, I'm sure this makes the swash go forward and left. What Ray says is that the Millenium is not the same as the Futura as it goes forward and right. Your blades will not react as they should when on the ground, especially without a flybar. Tie a normal two blader down to restrict its movement (one that you know FLIES straight), then put forward elevator in. The disc does not go directly forward, but tries to go to one side at first. The fact that the heli is tied down interferes with its normal behaviour to some degree. Have you sorted out the correct rotor speed ?
Denis

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11-12-2005 09:35 PM  12 years agoPost 6
erichevy

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Denis,
My rotorspeed can be measured when I'am at the field ( there's only one pilot with an RPM meter that I know of).
I've owned A Robbe Junior 50 in the past, and this heli (with flybar) also did supprise me about the rotor direction.
Can't compair it with my "regular" 2 bladed flybar heads.
Thanks for the info Fritz.
Eric.

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11-13-2005 12:09 PM  12 years agoPost 7
erichevy

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Zevenhoven The Netherlands

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At what rpm on the head should I run (Hughes 300C, futura mechanics,zenoah G230, 800mm blades, chord 62mm, 3blades)??
Eric.

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11-13-2005 03:24 PM  12 years agoPost 8
DenisS

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I would suggest anywhere between 1100 and 1300 on the head. Remember that the reading with a tacho may not be correct unless you select a three blade option. My Hirobo bell 47 with the 22 cc petrol motor and 800 mm blades runs at about 1250 rpm. Weigh the blades as the heavier they are the lower the RPM can be and still maintain stability. Try e-mailing Trevor at Midland Helicopters, they would be able to give good advice.
DenisS

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11-13-2005 04:24 PM  12 years agoPost 9
erichevy

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I'am back from the field.
What I did to measure the rpm's is to use a regular rpm meter for prop's (has a 3 prop measure on it) and placed the meter on a little box and spooled up the Hughes and soon I found out that I used to hoover on 1000 rpm and raised it to 1200-1250.
Oh boy this sounds different! and becomes very nervous on the cyclic.
I used some expo (-60%) and things are better now.
There was very little wind and the hughes react to this still very noticable. I still do not like the way it handles.
Thanks z11355, Denis and fritzthecat, for your info.
At the field there was pilot with a millenium and what do you think??
His forward cyclic moved the swash forward and left, the same as we do. So I guess That Ray's manual got it wrong.
Eric.

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11-15-2005 08:32 AM  12 years agoPost 10
DenisS

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That's good that you are finally getting things sorted. It may be worth investing in a Heltronics mixer with some CSM 180 gyros to tame things down. There's nothing worse than having a big dollar ornament because you are too worried about flying it. I have started collecting CSM 180 gyros ready for my 4 bladed Lynx next year. I want to be comfortable flying it, not scared.
Well done
Denis

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11-15-2005 04:26 PM  12 years agoPost 11
erichevy

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Denis, thanks for thinking with me.
The blades weigh 270 grams, I'd run them with 1250 Rpm last Sunday.
I did got the impression that I don't need the Helitronics because I have a mechanical mix on the cyclic and can use the Swashplate driver to adjust if nessesairy (wich I did, advance +/-45 degrees)
Suppose that i use the Gy 401 Robbe gyro on the elevator and or aileron can i use it/them in Heading hold?
Right now I'am using an (inferior?) GWS gyro without H.H. (might be the cause that it doesn't get to work properly.
Eric

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11-15-2005 05:41 PM  12 years agoPost 12
DenisS

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Hi Eric
Yes, you are right, the Heltronics mixer is not necessary for mechanical cyclic. The CSM 180 gyros are not H.H. and to be honest I don't think heading hold would help. I tried a GWS on the elevator on my BK117 with 4 blades and didn't like it at all. I now fly it without any gyros or mixers and that is eCCPM. I had the gyro gain at about 40% thinking that would help but the heli was nodding as the weight of the helicopter could not move fast enough for the gyro. Probably a lower gain would have helped but I didn't think of that at the time- I just took the gyro out and experimented with expo and swash rates until I was happy. The guys with gyros on their HeItronics only run at between 5% and 10% gain.I don't know if the Robbe gyro would be any better so can not give any recommendations on it. You could experiment with a slightly lower RPM, say 1150, but it will be trial and error until you find the right combination
Denis

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11-15-2005 07:02 PM  12 years agoPost 13
erichevy

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Zevenhoven The Netherlands

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Hi there Denis,
Your heli was nodding as you say, was that what is called Oscilation?
Might have spelled it bad.
Eric.

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