RunRyder RC
 4  Topic Subscribe
WATCH
 2 pages [ <<    <    ( 1 )     2     NEXT    >> ] 1291 views
Scorpion Power Scorpion Power
10-09-2005 06:33 AM  12 years agoPost 1
gorn

rrElite Veteran

Western Australia

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Hi guys
This FMA Co-Pilot thing Ive been seeing, if Im correct its a stabilising set of electronics right?
Ive only seen a few pics of this, but I would have thought that all the sensors and associated electronics was to big/bulky/heavy for a Shogun or say my 3d Pro.
Am I correct in thinking this? Anyone have one on their micro?
Thanks

For the love of the hobby

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
10-09-2005 10:41 AM  12 years agoPost 2
Lorents

rrElite Veteran

Oslo, Norway

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Hi Gorn,

If you do a search on Ezonemag (http://www.ezonemag.com/) you will find a review on it.

I have read some posts from people having problems with glitching using the included receiver.



What comes around goes around.

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
10-09-2005 11:23 AM  12 years agoPost 3
gorn

rrElite Veteran

Western Australia

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Thanks Lorents

For the love of the hobby

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
10-09-2005 01:37 PM  12 years agoPost 4
copperclad

rrElite Veteran

NY

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

hi gorn
i could be wrong but i think it will add a couple of ounces , it might be too heavy for a micro heli

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
10-09-2005 04:38 PM  12 years agoPost 5
gorn

rrElite Veteran

Western Australia

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Hi Copperclad
Actually, Ive been Googling tonight, and found that the entire thing weighs 1 oz total.
Still wouldnt be T-Rex weight with that I think lol.

For the love of the hobby

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
10-09-2005 08:02 PM  12 years agoPost 6
TomC

rrKey Veteran

Gold Coast,​Queensland,​Australia

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I installed a co-pilot on my friend's stock V1 Shogun and it works very well. We used the original $99 copilot that does have its own Rx and can only be used for mechanical CCPM, like the shougun, or Raptor. This unit only adds 20-25g weight.

Once we got it set-up properly (a bit of a fiddle, but not really too hard) it was amazing to see this little heli hover, hands-free. When the unit is set to high gains, it's almost too stable. You can slowly turn these down as your flying levels improve.

I originally used this unit on my Corona a few years ago and I found that it really helped me a lot. I only used it for about a month, but I figure it was well worth it, especially if you are trying to learn to fly by yourself.

Cheers,

TomC

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
10-10-2005 04:08 AM  12 years agoPost 7
gorn

rrElite Veteran

Western Australia

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Thanks for the reply Tom, much appreciated

For the love of the hobby

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
10-10-2005 04:47 AM  12 years agoPost 8
OICU812

rrMaster

Edson, Alberta,​Canada

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

If you are that nervous about flight stabalization then start indoors with a XRB Hirobo lama or something. People always seem to think the co pilot will save them, only in certain situations will it do so. I think they would be a fantastic thing to have, wish I had one some time ago when I first learned to hover etc. However if you are up in air doing some 3D and lose it and depend on the copilot you are toast no matter what. If you are sliding sideways it will level in that maneveur, you will still have to push it from sliding.......ANyhoooo there ya go, my two bits heh....

...Once upon a time there were Nitros, flybars and frequency pins...

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
10-10-2005 05:12 AM  12 years agoPost 9
TomC

rrKey Veteran

Gold Coast,​Queensland,​Australia

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Actually, that's not quite correct. Properly set-up the co-pilot will go into a stable, level hover, not continue sliding one way or the other. I've even let go of everything inverted, and it fixed itself up fine. The higher the gain is set, the quicker it will stablise. You still need to control throttle and tail however. A hh gyro makes this even easier, like flying around a rc car.

I feel that the co-pilot is a better alternative than a Lama because it allows you to 'grow-up' with your heli instead of switching over later, which would be a big next step.

Cheers,

TomC

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
10-10-2005 05:53 AM  12 years agoPost 10
shaltac

rrApprentice

Rochester, NY

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I tried this on a Shogun (and still have the copilot, saving it for later I guess). You will quickly outdraw the BEC on most speed controllers if you add 4 servos, a GY401, and a Copilot ( I know that the CC35 will blow). With a seperate BEC, and a well setup Shogun, AND running some carbon blades with a brushless setup (the stock 400 and foamies will only do so much) The copilot can be made to work... now it looks goofy, but...
Rusty

I'm wrong no matter what I do, so I might as well have fun doing it!

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
10-10-2005 09:33 AM  12 years agoPost 11
TomC

rrKey Veteran

Gold Coast,​Queensland,​Australia

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

G'day Mates,

The co-pilot (original $99 one for mechanical CCPM only) unit itself actually only draws about 10-20ma (approx 5-10% of a servo) but at high gain settings it can work your roll and pitch servos pretty hard.

All the co-pilot does is try to balance these 2 functions (roll and pitch), like a gyro, except it uses the difference in infrared temperatures between the ground and sky to do this.

Like any high performance gyro (like your 401) at high gains it will work your tail servo pretty hard. This is why Futaba recommends keeping your 401 gyro gains down as low as possible to help your tail servo motor survive a bit longer!

This, all in turn, will put higher demands on your bec. Neither has a significant effect on your pitch servo loads in this case.

The co-pilot unit I installed was on a stock standard V1 shogun (including foamies) equipped with a stock brushed motor, with a 20a esc with only a 1.5a bec. For fairly slow flight and hovering training mode, using 80% gain, there has not been a bec-related problem at all. I personally tried this high setting in fast forward flight and did not have any problems, except I found that I had to give it a lot more stick and a bit more time to get it to respond.

I run my own brushless shogun (not with a co-pilot) with a cc35 and have my gyro on pretty high gain and have never come close to overloading it with some pretty aggressive 3D moves (a good hard forward flip with a bit of a piro seems to load up everything the most).

I have a hard time understanding how your CC35 with 3a bec could possibly have overloaded. Maybe you were using too high a co-pilot gain setting for what you were trying to do with the heli. If you do this, you will really need to 'fight' the servos to get them to respond and this may end up putting a lot more load on the bec. You may also have not had your other cc35 settings correct, like not having your current overload disabled. Many brushless motors need to have this setting disabled.

Hovering practice and very slow figure 8's only needs about 70-80% gain and you should reduce this to about 50% when you are into slow forward flight circuits. Once you are ready for fast forward flight you should turn down the gains to about 30-35%. This will give virtually no resistance to the sticks but will still help right the heli if you get dumb-thumbed, although it will take longer for the heli to correct itself.

Once you are to this point, you probably do not really need it anymore. Sell it to a newbie (like I did) who can use it. If you want to use it any further, for acro training, you can set it up to turn itself off using your gear switch, or use another channel, if you are using a gyro (like the 401) that uses the gear switch to switch between hh and non-hh modes, and their associated gain settings. You will then only switch it on (still at about 30-35% gain) as a failsafe measure.

The co-pilot manual, like most made in the USA manuals, is very good. I know most Brits (we call them poms down-under) will say that USA instruction manuals are better because yanks need them, well so do I! It contains lots of info and you really need to re-read it over a few times, esp. about the set-up procedures.

The co-pilot sensor unit needs to be on the boom, close as possible to the main frame, facing up! You can then easily sight it in line with the main gear.

You still should get an experienced heli flyer to trim out the heli with the co-pilot installed, but switched off. The next impotent thing to do is to try to get the heli as level as possible when you do your first initial flight of the day. I use a simple round bubble level that I place on top of the co-pilot sensor unit and move the heli around a bit until it is dead level. Even if you are very careful, you will still probably need to give it a bit of a re-trim to get it to hover perfectly, but these should be minor trims. It still would be a good idea to get an experienced heli flyer to do this for you the first time. If you need to re-trim a lot, it probably means that your set-up procedures need a bit of adjusting (re-read the manual, it explains it better than I can). Also, you need to have a good line of sight, no trees, fences, or buildings for at least 50m (100m is even better) and, of course, it needs to be outside (but not in your little backyard), and not indoors!

The co-pilot may not be the right gear for everyone, but it sure helped me out. In some ways I found it better than a PC flight simulator (which you should still use) because it almost gives you the flight sim 'reset' feature, but in a real life environment. I think it progressed my heli-flying skills (I was already pretty good with planes and gliders, all electrics) as much in 1-2 months that I've seen some local guys take over a year to get to, and I went through a lot less spares, although I still went through a few of them!

Cheers,

TomC

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
10-10-2005 02:51 PM  12 years agoPost 12
shaltac

rrApprentice

Rochester, NY

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Interesting on your use of the Copilot. I went through two CC35's and the point of failure was after adding the copilot (original version for $99). The first one poped as soon as I plugged it in with the copilot added, and was replaced under warranty. The second CC35 allowed me to set up the CoPilot, but then blew when I added the load of the motor turning. I ran both of these setup sans Copilot first, and they were ok. I assumed if the 3A BEC in the CC unit was blowing, then the other BEC's would also have issues. My Shogun was sluggish to lift with the foamies, the 400, and no Copilot... Hence the thought that a brushless was in order. I've learned a lot in the year since then, and I suppose that there may have been other contributing factors (in retrospect). Here was my setup just to FYI - take it as you will...

Shogun V1
CC - 35
Eflight brushless
TP 2100 3S
HS -55 x3
HS -50
GY401
Hitec Electron 6
Copilot - Standalone
Metal tail servo mount / Gyro mount
Metal tail slider
Improved tail output gear
Conical tail gears

I'm wrong no matter what I do, so I might as well have fun doing it!

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
10-10-2005 02:54 PM  12 years agoPost 13
shaltac

rrApprentice

Rochester, NY

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Oh and I didn't want to dig on the Copilot, I was just trying to be helpful... I have mine, because I like the idea, I just haven't found the right situation to use it in yet.

I'm wrong no matter what I do, so I might as well have fun doing it!

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
10-10-2005 05:33 PM  12 years agoPost 14
gorn

rrElite Veteran

Western Australia

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Now this IS getting interesting
Very curious about the overloading of your CC35. I wonder if others have had similar problems.........maybe not, seeing as most people seem to think they are for larger heli's ( the co-pilot)
I emailed the manufacturer and they gave me an exact weight of the complete new system. 45 grams! that is so stuff all! lol
I am running a Himax 4200 with TP Pro Lite 3s 2000mah, and MAH carbons are on their way, so I doubt very much indeed that weight will be an issue here.
I already have a sim, but I have to say, after a while........like most people I get bored sitting at a PC, and I want to fly, but of course its expensive when you smack em into the ground lol..........I KNOW
Hopefully some more people will chime in on this subject, as I'd really like to know other peoples experiences with their ESC.
I highly recommend everyone get a good sim and clock up the hours, but.........its not the same, and when the weather is fine I want to fly the real deal without driving for an hour to get to a field to fly.
Anyhoo, looks like this thing is high up on my shopping list for now.
I appreciate all the replies and discussion so far guys

For the love of the hobby

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
10-10-2005 07:15 PM  12 years agoPost 15
TomC

rrKey Veteran

Gold Coast,​Queensland,​Australia

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Gorn,

Stay away from the new system since it comes with a Rx built-in (hence the extra weight) and they only make them for 72 mhz band, not legal in Australia. I really do not think that the esc/bec is an issue as long as you use my previous suggestions.

I've 'actually' used the co-pilot on a Corona (brushless with a cc35 esc), a Kyosho EP Concept (brushed with a cc35 brushed esc and brushless with a jazz 40-6-18 esc) and a shogun (stock brushed, with a shultze 20a brushed esc) and never had any bec-related problems with any of these.

I know that shaltac is trying to be helpful, but I do not really think that he has actually nutted out why it did not work for him. I doubt very much that his cc35 problems had anything to do with the co-pilot. Maybe he was just unlucky and got bad (esc) ones, or maybe his gear meshings and/or swashplate links were too tight? In any case, it might be worth asking FMA if they have had any other reported problems using their system on micro/mini electric heli's.

Anyway, for $99, it's worth trying imho. Good luck.

Cheers,

TomC

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
10-10-2005 07:48 PM  12 years agoPost 16
gorn

rrElite Veteran

Western Australia

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Hi Tom
Yeah I gathered that you had to use their Rx.
Incorrect on the frequencies though mate. They are now selling 35mhz for Britain and 36mhz for Oz .
Why is using their Rx a bad thing? The all up weight they quoted me included their Rx, and I though it was very reasonable with that in mind.

For the love of the hobby

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
10-10-2005 08:35 PM  12 years agoPost 17
TomC

rrKey Veteran

Gold Coast,​Queensland,​Australia

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

gorn,

That's great news for me! I did not know that they now made them for our freq bands. Their new version allows you to use it on a E-CCPM heli (only with a 120 deg swashplate, I believe) so I might pick one up and try it on my Logo 20.

I do not know much about their (FMA) Rx's. Hopefully they are ok. I prefer to use pcm (use a JR 770 on my heli's). I also use a ferite ring as well. Thanks for this info Mate.

Cheers,

TomC

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
10-11-2005 04:13 AM  12 years agoPost 18
gorn

rrElite Veteran

Western Australia

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

no problem at all Tom, glad some of my info about it helped you out

For the love of the hobby

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
10-11-2005 03:13 PM  12 years agoPost 19
shaltac

rrApprentice

Rochester, NY

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

At time of my issues there were a lot of posts on how the CC 3 amp BEC was two 1.5A Regulators in parallel. In fact there were part numbers listed, and I looked up the white papers for myself. They are rated at 1.5A with appropriate heat sinking and airflow... not wraped in a piece of shrinkwrap. There were a number of posts complaining that the CC units were popping like corn in a hot iron pan. Both of the first 2 CC35's worked fine until I added the extra stress of the Copilot standalone. There was no extreme cyclic movement, in fact the heli was barely spun up and sitting on the ground the time that it didn't pop as soon as the power was applied. I'm glad you guys are having good luck with this setup, I'm in fact even using a CC35 with the Trex I just built. I will be adding an external BEC if I add anything more to the electronics. Maybe CC has done something in the past year to improve on the BEC design?

My comment about the setup and Newbe issue from the Shogun was directed twords the poor performance I experienced from the stock can 400 and foam blades. I can remember how much the foamies flexed when you would put a load on them. When I compare that to the woodies or the carbons from the Raptor, or the woodies on the Trex I think of how much more lift I would have gotten from something a little more solid. So if you guys are having good luck with the 400 and the foamies, I may have had some setup issues mechanically.

I'm wrong no matter what I do, so I might as well have fun doing it!

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
10-13-2005 10:50 AM  12 years agoPost 20
dkourk

rrNovice

Athens - Greece

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Hello everyone,

here is a newbie question for all out there,

I am just learning to hover, but would prefer to try and avoid silly crashes...have just learned about the fs8 co-pilot system and it looks extremelly interesting...at least to start with.

I have also purchased a reflex simulator but its never going to be the same simply because subcontiously you know you do not have anything to lose!

here comes the question: i have a jr 10x and run it with a pcm receiver at 35mhz. Would it be possible to use all the fs8 functionality without using their receiver? Do the simpler models correct for both cyclic axis?

Finally is it worth using in my case where I am still stragling with hovering?

thanks,

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
WATCH
 2 pages [ <<    <    ( 1 )     2     NEXT    >> ] 1291 views
Scorpion Power Scorpion Power
 Print TOPIC  Make Suggestion 

 4  Topic Subscribe

Wednesday, November 22 - 7:21 am - Copyright © 2000-2017 RunRyder   EMAILEnable Cookies

Login Here
 New Subscriptions 
 Buddies Online