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HelicopterMain Discussion › Banked turns... what am I doing wrong
10-07-2005 11:40 PM  12 years agoPost 1
tchavei

rrProfessor

Portugal

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Hi all

I have been training some banked turns and it seems I have some problems with my left turns... my right turns come out as I want but the left turns... either I'm slowing down or giving too small rudder inputs or even entering the curve wrongfully... I just don't know.

At the day when I was trying to make those banked turns, a fellow was shooting a vid, so I managed to get a sample of my flying.

If someone has the patience, could he/she take a look and tell me what I'm doing wrong? I only have another heli flyer at my field and since he is into scale flying he likes my "ugly" curves better So its kinda hard to spot my errors...

here is the link: Figure8

and don't mind the music... I took the vid out of its context.

Thx
Tony


--------------------
"Perfection and patience usually walk side by side..."

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10-07-2005 11:50 PM  12 years agoPost 2
dgshaffer

rrElite Veteran

New Jersey

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From what I could see, it looks as though you need to lower collective when entering the turn. That will keep you from balooning up. If you notice in your left hand turn you have a steeper lean angle which is acomplishing the same thing.

It's all in your collective management.

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10-07-2005 11:53 PM  12 years agoPost 3
dgshaffer

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New Jersey

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Also, don't feel too bad about it. Most pilots have a good side and a bad side. Only practice will even things out.

You're flying really well.

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10-08-2005 12:06 AM  12 years agoPost 4
v58 fuy

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UK - Kent

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I found that when I was learning figure 8's I would always start on one side, and when they went wrong and I returned to hover and try again. This method means that you effectively end up with a lot more practise of your preferred start turn and only when you begin to complete this one correctly do you really concentrate on the other turn - this means one way you will end up better at until much more practise down the line.

David

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10-08-2005 02:53 AM  12 years agoPost 5
BONO1

rrApprentice

AR

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I have helped many people with the same problem and I can tell you that you are probably right hand domiant. Don't worry you can over come it with a little practice. Start doing slow figure eights and don't let the heli get far from you when you do your left hand turn. Go slow and after doing left hand turns on your left stop and think while refueling and go with a left hand turn on your right.

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10-08-2005 06:52 AM  12 years agoPost 6
Mark C

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Houston, TX - USA

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None of the above.

Well.. Not really. There are some good suggestions from the previous posts but the problem is that you are not leading with aileron.

Nice "hard 8's" start by leaning into the turn with the aileron then elevator to level the bank with rudder to balance or coordinate the tail.

I always chant to the students "aileron...elevator..coordinate with the rudder aileron...elevator..coordinate with the rudder".

It is not as obvious on your right turns but it certainly shows up on your left turns.

Whenever yo see the heli balooning into the turn then you know you hit the elevator first or was plain just to heavy on the elevator. If the heli falls in the turn then there was not enough elevator or not enough power. If you over/under rotate the tail it is pretty obvious. The tail should look like it is just following or just slightly leading - never lagging. It takes a different level of inputs for right turns vs. left turns. With consistent power applied ANY amount of elevator applied beofore you lean into the turn with the aileron will cause the bird to rise. Remember to add enough power so that the bird does not loose any speed in the turn.

As you are exiting the turn you back off on elevator and relevel the bird with aileron.


With practice it becomes smooth and fluid.

Hope this helps
Mark C.

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10-08-2005 07:21 AM  12 years agoPost 7
HiroboEric

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Los Angeles, CA.

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I would drop some of your cyclic pitch out of your range to the elevator ATV or S-2 value. This should give you a little more progressive movement in your cyclic input. I would also add more expo and soften your center up there to on thaat stick. Also brings me a question about what servos your cyclic uses. Perhaps they are week in hold and torque. Just a question though. Also try some advancing expo in your rudder. This will help you get more rudder with a softer touch.

Eric Pacheco, AirWorksRC.com

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10-08-2005 07:37 AM  12 years agoPost 8
rcheliflyer

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calif., usa

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Looking good,

But I'd slow down a bit to get a better feel for aileron / elevator / rudder timing.
Don't worry too much about changing adjustments just yet, it will come
to you with more flight time and then it will come together.
When you feel you are getting a better feel then you might try some
adjustments or changes if needed.

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10-08-2005 07:58 AM  12 years agoPost 9
Gearhead

rrMaster

Vt

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some of it has to do with the torque of the main blades !!


Jim

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10-08-2005 08:27 AM  12 years agoPost 10
tchavei

rrProfessor

Portugal

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Wow

So many advices

The right turns on my left side sometimes ballon up (leading with elevator I know) but seem to be much more stable and secure (and faster) I don't even think about them.

On the left turns (on my right side) the heli seems needing always somekind of correction so it doesn't drop too much. I do feel I lead with aileron on those left turns but the result isn't exactly wonderfull.

Seems I gonna have to practice alot more.

Yes I'm much more confortable with right turns. Even when breaking from hover to FF I always bank and turn the heli to the right!....I have to change that.

PS: this evo has 9202 all around... nothing special but the same thing happens on my Freya 91 with 9252 so Its me for sure...

Cheers
Tony


--------------------
"Perfection and patience usually walk side by side..."

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10-08-2005 10:41 AM  12 years agoPost 11
Helix60

rrNovice

Ohio

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Now this is why I read these forums every day. Great information and a lot of help from the members.

Proud to be a member here

Regards,
Heli

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10-08-2005 12:20 PM  12 years agoPost 12
ChrisMoore

rrApprentice

Bay Village, OH

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One thing that I did in plank flying that helps with learning is to visualize what it is that I want the aircraft to do and mimmick the stick movements while I do this. In other words, I did everything I could to not actually fly the maneuver wrong over and over and over since that only reinforced negative outcomes. If you think about perfectly executing the maneuver then you will become better at looking ahead of the aircraft's movements and more able to anticipate your inputs rather than trying to fight the helicopter.


Chris

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10-08-2005 01:05 PM  12 years agoPost 13
doorman

rrProfessor

Sherwood, Arkansas

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You Answered Your Own Question.....

Seems I gonna have to practice alot more.
You are doing just fine...... and practice is what it is going to take...
I would say that Mark C has given you the clearest answer and also the best explanation..... it all comes down to timing and giving the unit what it needs at any particular moment, but "balance" of the controls is the most important and will come with time....and a LOT of Practice!!!
From the video, it also looked a bit "breezy" that day and when you were making your right turns you were turning back into the wind (creates more lift), while on you left turns you would be changing from going into the wind to flying with it (creates less lift) and in the last quarter or so of the turn you loose a little lift.. That is why you are dropping a bit..... so just be ready to add a little pitch from about half way to the end of the turn and when turning into the wind you actually reduce the pitch a little to help level things out....
Looking good though...... have fun.... it is a great part of the hobby....
Stan

AMA 2918-Team JR, Spin Blades, East Coast Scale Helicopter,Castle Creations

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10-08-2005 01:14 PM  12 years agoPost 14
tchavei

rrProfessor

Portugal

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I forgot to mention that!... It was windy that day...


Tony


--------------------
"Perfection and patience usually walk side by side..."

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10-08-2005 01:23 PM  12 years agoPost 15
dgshaffer

rrElite Veteran

New Jersey

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I could tell

Some really great advise you got here. I could see what was happening but others explained it better than I could.

Good luck with your practice.

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10-08-2005 02:19 PM  12 years agoPost 16
nivlek

rrProfessor

Norfolk England

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I just had a quick look , and I would also say that it is because you are leading with the elevator . Nothing that another gallon can't fix !

At the end of the day , it gets dark .

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10-08-2005 05:04 PM  12 years agoPost 17
Pete Niotis

rrApprentice

Grand Haven MI, USA

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Tony...try practicing flat hovering circuits at eye level. This will allow you to see what you are doing wrong and help you learn to do it with more control and precision. Move on to flat hovering figure 8's eventually.

Do not wait for a calm day to practice this, best to practice on moderately windy days. This help you learn when to add power and when to back out of the power while learning to use the correct amount of cyclic and rudder. (Wipe on Wipe Off)

Good Luck

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10-09-2005 04:18 AM  12 years agoPost 18
tchavei

rrProfessor

Portugal

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Wipe on, Wipe off... heheheh

Thank you all for your answers. They helped me to realise some mistakes I was/am doing.

I went to the field today. It was windy again but blowing from the opposite direction. Things became inverted... the good turns from the other day became worse and the bad turns became alot better... its the wind alright. I practiced leading with aileron and adding collective at the middle of the turn whenever I was going to turn into the wind and lowering it whenever I was turning with it.

Flying in a valley isn't helping though... my eyes keep playing tricks on me whenever the bird gets low enough to see the trees behind it... specially on a cloudy day like today.

Thx again for all your help!

Cheers
Tony


--------------------
"Perfection and patience usually walk side by side..."

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10-09-2005 12:14 PM  12 years agoPost 19
doorman

rrProfessor

Sherwood, Arkansas

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Thanks For Your Help!!!!

Glad we were able to help you out..... now it is just practice....
As far as the eyes playing tricks on you... this is also a common problem.... I buried my first 60 sized machine by thinking the unit was turning the opposite way then it really was, so when I corrected it just enhanced the problem and it sort of resembled a roto tiller on edge!!!!
Keep your curcuits in just a little closer and work your way out slowly.... you are getting used to seeing the heli in different angles and they all look differernt.... but you are "winning".....
Best of Luck.....

AMA 2918-Team JR, Spin Blades, East Coast Scale Helicopter,Castle Creations

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