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Scorpion Power Scorpion Power
HelicopterGasser Model RC HelicoptersOther › Spectra-g, any suggestions?
10-09-2005 05:23 AM  12 years agoPost 21
rbort

rrProfessor

Franklin, MA - USA

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Summer is slipping by right now

Well today turned out to be a rainy day. 1.58 inches so far and the "last day of summer" as I put it two days ago. Temperature was in the 70's today all day (unusual in October here) and at the time I went out to dinner it was 72 degrees, on the way back from dinner it was down to 54 degrees. Cold front went through and goodbye extended summer.

Had a house guest so I didn't do much until tonight after dinner where I swapped the new 811 throttle servo while it was still good with the Futaba 3003 servo from my Taylorcraft throttle. I figure if the cheapo Futaba servo works well for thenewguy, well then I'm going with that from the beginning before I have any issues.

I started installing the generator on the top and managed to drill the top CF plate and mount the AXI motor with 6mm socket head screws to it. Will need to cut the side of the CF plate near the antirotation link so the antirotation swashplate screw doesn't touch it. Have not decided how to best mount the top plate to the side frames yet, it got late (past midnight now) and I figure I'll deal with it tomorrow. Still raining and 1.63 inches total now as I type this, and more rain to come tomorrow so chances are no flying for me so I'll have time to finish the on-board power setup this weekend.

If any of you guys have any others tips or suggestions let me know. I think its just a matter of working though the machine to figure out the best practices just as I have with the previous machine I have. Steve I owe you a phone call, will try to do that tomorrow.

-=>Raja.

MA 1005 Hanson 280, 4136 flts
Spectra 27 3DMax, 3200 flts
Whiplash V1 Hanson 300, 1430 flts
Whiplash V2 Hanson 300, 196 flts

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10-10-2005 05:26 AM  12 years agoPost 22
rbort

rrProfessor

Franklin, MA - USA

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On-board power installation completed

Well after 3.30 inches of rain, no flying but at least I got something done. Finished the setup of the AXI motor on my Spectra. I uploaded the pictures to my gallery if you guys are interested in seeing how I did it.

For those who have wondered, I started it in the garage tonight and measured the output voltage from the AXI motor. A slow idle provides as much as 5.3 volts, but it varies by about 0.3 volt due to unevenness of the motor speed at slow speeds. Then I raised the idle speed until the clutch started to enguage, and that was at around 10 volts from the AXI motor. I can maintain 8.80v from the AXI motor with no clutch enguagement on this machine. So basically this means I can set the idle speed to something that will provide power and charge without turning the rotors on the ground though that will sound more like a fast idle than a normal idle.

Going to test fly it tomorrow. Now that I have no more battery worries, I can fly until dark. Will let you know how I make out, and, I should be receiving the 611 gyro either tomorrow or Tuesday so that will be the next modification to this machine.

-=>Raja.

MA 1005 Hanson 280, 4136 flts
Spectra 27 3DMax, 3200 flts
Whiplash V1 Hanson 300, 1430 flts
Whiplash V2 Hanson 300, 196 flts

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10-11-2005 12:33 AM  12 years agoPost 23
rbort

rrProfessor

Franklin, MA - USA

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Spectra-g performance upgrade

Well today went very well. The 7th flight and I finally got to start enjoying the machine. Smoothed out alot better than before, still a couple of burps but I was able to tweak most of them away. I noticed the tail is not shaking as much in spoolup or during an auto on the way down. Fuel tank also looked reasonable.

Good things noted:

a) removing the carb spacer plate was probably a good idea.
b) swapping out the DS811 servo for the Futaba 3003 worked well. For some reason the new DS811 used to chatter a bit around midstick, the Futaba does not. I can only attest that to the JR servo not being 100% compatable with the futuba gv-1, so, if you plan to use a gv-1 I recommend going with a futaba servo to be on the safe side.
c) The heli seems to run nice at 1500 and 1600 speeds. At 1700 it seemed to race and slow down then race then slow down ever so slightly. I've determined that the next step is to swap out the thin pickup line for a thicker line. My guess that there is too much resistance and in the high rpms the fuel flow rate is good good enough to keep the engine rich. I did that tonight, will update you guys and let you know how that changed things if any.
d) Lastly I had swapped the white Minair paddles with the PRO II black paddles and they feel ALOT nicer. I highly recommend them as the heli feels much more solid in a hover and sits well.

Got lucky to squeak out the flight in tonight, been rainy, overcast and misty the whole weekend. There seemed to be a hole in the clouds (not visually but rainwise) and I was able to spend about 30 minutes flying and fiddling before it started to rain and I had to pack it up. She is ready for the next field trials now with the changed fuel line in the tank.

The list seems to be getting smaller and smaller which is a good thing. The next swap would be the gy611 for the 401 which should come tomorrow.

Oh yeah, one boo boo which I escaped thankfully is that when I swapped out my JR throttle servo for the Futaba I reversed it in the TX but forgot to reset the failsafe. I found out today after shutting the engine down and turning off the TX that it went to full throttle. Good thing the engine was off and a darn good thing I didn't have any RF interferance! Well at least I discovered it before anything bad happened!

-=>Raja.

MA 1005 Hanson 280, 4136 flts
Spectra 27 3DMax, 3200 flts
Whiplash V1 Hanson 300, 1430 flts
Whiplash V2 Hanson 300, 196 flts

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10-11-2005 05:38 AM  12 years agoPost 24
thenewguy

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Corvallis, Oregon​Where there is​liquid sunshine!

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That all sound great. I'm glad to hear your getting the Spectra down. Man that pipe I bought from you is the best thing I've ever done. The flex unit brook after the first flight. I knew that was going to happen. I JB welded the small peace of aluminum in place. Then I built a different support system for the tail of the pipe. It lasted for awile,but the JB weld let loose. Did not come apart because of the peace inside. I'm going to try to fix it like a motor cycle exhaust. Mounting 3 springs from the header to the pipe it self. I will post pics and a video as soon as I can. I just got my 611 and 14 mz set up on the Spectra also. The 14 mz is ggggreattt. The 611 had a drift in it to the left. Real bad to. I'm going to try working on it tomarrow. Not quiet sure what it is . Let me know how your 611 goes. The 231 makes so much power now. I think the clutch is slipping . More bugs to work out.

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10-11-2005 05:40 AM  12 years agoPost 25
Toadster25

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Iowa

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rbort in your list of things noted letter c where you say the rpm speeds up and down I noticed mine doing that too. It runs like I have a tuned pipe on it when it hits a certain rpm and the engine gets more power. I would just make very slight pitch change and the engine speed will change alot. I thought maybe caused by the mixture not being set perfect yet. Let me know if the larger fuel pickup line helps.

I found my engine bolts were comming loose. I notice the plate that holds the pull starter bending and I had a gap between it and the thick carbon plate. It pushed the engine up and the gap between the clutch and engine was gone. Two of three bolts were coming loose. I used medium strength locktite so that may be why? I used red this time.

I also was checking the ball links and found that the linkage on the servo mounted in the highest spot is getting some play in it already and all the other ball links still feel tight. That seems a little loose for the number of flights that I have on it. I wonder if it has more vibration being up on top?

BTW still having trouble with V2 muffler staying tight.

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10-11-2005 05:46 AM  12 years agoPost 26
thenewguy

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Corvallis, Oregon​Where there is​liquid sunshine!

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Hey Toadster25,


I just bought the same exhaust from rbort. Mine has a different coupler on it. Do you have problems with yours? I can't put a peace of high temp tubing over, mine it would be huge. Sure wish I had yours. Is that Hanson's new or old type? Or is it your own?

Thanks

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10-11-2005 05:54 AM  12 years agoPost 27
Toadster25

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Iowa

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Are you talking about my Century torpedo V2 or the tuned pipe? I have both pictured in my gallery. I am not using the hanson tuned pipe because the header pipe cracked. I started using the V2 muffler and I like how it runs better but I haven't been able to get it to stay tight yet.

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10-11-2005 05:56 AM  12 years agoPost 28
thenewguy

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Corvallis, Oregon​Where there is​liquid sunshine!

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I was talking about the tuned pipe. I have 2 of the Hatori pipes with ss headers. They only stay on with the ss header. 8 gallons threw and no problems. Now that I have the tuned pipe, I dout I will go back.

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10-11-2005 01:23 PM  12 years agoPost 29
Toadster25

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Iowa

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The tuned pipe that I have is the newer one that uses the tube like in the piture. I was using it but the header pipe cracked while flying. I think that I should have supported the front and rear of the pipe but I didn't and that may have caused it to crack? I never have liked tuned pipes on my nitro machines because they only run good at one speed and I have trouble getting them to run right so I wanted to try a muffler.

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10-11-2005 02:25 PM  12 years agoPost 30
rbort

rrProfessor

Franklin, MA - USA

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Getting there

Well I cut the canopy last night to clear the alternator on top. I also cut the back edge all around to make a little better room for the muffler mount and the fuel lines coming to the carb. Put in the thicker fuel line that comes with the gas stopper. Its not that thick but not thin enough to allow the clunk to flop over everywhere. Basically it stays in the back of the tank but I'm not worried as a) I don't plan on using all the fuel (I leave 1/4 tank in there every flight so it doesn't suck air during aerobatics) and b) I can't be nose down for extended periods of time anyway with the clunk up in the air.

I also moved the stator gator from the bottom of the engine tray to the right side of the fuel tank (double stuck on the fuel tank right side rear. This allows for the canopy to slip on easier (no wires on the bottom) and once its on you see the bottom plate and there is no stuff there so its esthetically more pleasing.

I got lucky yesterday squeaking in a flight, its raining again today and now up to 3.85 inches of rain. If there is a window of opportunity to fly today I will take it out and try the thicker clunk line to see how it makes out with that.

Still waiting on my V2 muffler (on backorder) though wondering if I should think about something else. I like the way it would fit (no canopy cuts) and that is why I haven't searched for anything else at the moment.

I haven't noticed any loose bolts on the engine. I did check blade glip bolts and main shaft area bolts and they all seem OK.

-=>Raja.

MA 1005 Hanson 280, 4136 flts
Spectra 27 3DMax, 3200 flts
Whiplash V1 Hanson 300, 1430 flts
Whiplash V2 Hanson 300, 196 flts

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10-12-2005 02:28 AM  12 years agoPost 31
Toadster25

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Iowa

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I crashed my spectra today.
rbort, I should have got your generator. My battery went dead at about 5 feet up and the heli tilted to the right pretty hard and went down into the ground. I've added up all the parts that I think I need and its about $225 plus Main blades. I forgot to take my canopy with me to the field so I didn't trash it, that is good.

How long do you think the clutch can slip before damage? I think it was flopping around on the ground for what seemed like 3 seconds before I flipped the throttle hold.

I cant believe I did that. When I've had low batteries before I would notice the tail rotor loosing control and I could get it on the ground but that was with the 401 gyro now that I have the 611 it seems to work with lower voltage than my JR 8311 servos. When I was checking to see what hapened the 611 was saying low battery on the display.

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10-12-2005 02:52 AM  12 years agoPost 32
rbort

rrProfessor

Franklin, MA - USA

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Oh $#*# that sucks!

I wish I could have warned you, the 601 and probably the 611 DRINK alot of battery. ALOT more than a 401. I can get only about 38 minutes with no generator on my 1005 gasser with the 601. I can fly one of the MIT helis (side job) with a 401 gyro for over an hour with the same pack.

Are you using a gv-1? It has a "2 minute warning" feature in it. You set it to 20% throttle (about 1/3 stick) and when the battery is dying it throttles back to wherever you set it (20% in this case) so you know its time to land ASAP. That is the last warning you will get with the model and before the generator days I got pretty good at flying until it throttled back (not on purpose but with time flying and the 601 sucking alot of power) and I would land right away and either change the pack or go home. I know its hindsight, but you should know about it anyway.

Sorry to hear that you crashed and I hope you get it back in the air soon. You were one of my testing buddies and I enjoyed comparing notes with you

About the clutch, if there isn't alot of liner dust then you are probably OK. You can restart it before you order parts and see how well it enguages. It should not be enguaged until you go to full trim on the throttle trim and then start to enguage. If enguaged all the time then the clutch arms are sprung out (usually from a hot start). If the engine is racing too much before enguagement then you need to replace the clutch liner.

-=>Raja.

MA 1005 Hanson 280, 4136 flts
Spectra 27 3DMax, 3200 flts
Whiplash V1 Hanson 300, 1430 flts
Whiplash V2 Hanson 300, 196 flts

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10-14-2005 03:57 AM  12 years agoPost 33
rbort

rrProfessor

Franklin, MA - USA

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Spectra done, waiting for that weather to​break

Well I've been driving back and forth to work for the past two days with the Spectra in the trunk, hoping to fly it after work on the way home. Yesterday it was raining the whole time, today there was hope (no rain) and 1/2 way home it started raining. Bummer! Hasn't stopped since. Now the rain guage is reading 4.22 inches and its been raining/misting for a week now. We are stuck in a cloud here...

Frustrated I gave the spectra another look tonight and made some changes. I put rubber isolators on the landing gear (JR) just as I use on my 1005 gasser. I also replaced the rudder horn with a wheel for added strength. Had the 611 gyro installed two nights ago hoping to fly it yesterday or today, no luck yet. Interesting thing I noticed about the 611, if you shake the rudder stick quickly back and forth in HH mode, 1 second later the servo centers itself. Weird. Anyone else notice this? Must be some new feature...

I took some pictures of my install as I thought it came out neat and rather good, so I wanted to share them with the crowd for anyone who is interested in seeing how I set mine up.

Take a look at my photo website at:

http://www.massheli.com/gallery/raja

I will upload some of these pictures to my gallery here later on.

If you have any comments, let me know. Oh yeah, I'm waiting for the V2 muffler to try out, so the box muffler is temporary to get me in the air for now.

I will be driving it back to work again tomorrow in the trunk, hoping to have it come out and play after work!

-=>Raja.

MA 1005 Hanson 280, 4136 flts
Spectra 27 3DMax, 3200 flts
Whiplash V1 Hanson 300, 1430 flts
Whiplash V2 Hanson 300, 196 flts

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10-14-2005 04:28 AM  12 years agoPost 34
thenewguy

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Corvallis, Oregon​Where there is​liquid sunshine!

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My 611 did the same.

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10-15-2005 12:55 AM  12 years agoPost 35
rbort

rrProfessor

Franklin, MA - USA

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A break in the rain, measured in seconds...

Well can you guess, its still raining. 5.16 inches today now since over a week ago when it started. On the way home today 3rd try, it looked like it almost stopped. Maybe a slight mist. I got to the school field behind my house and pulled it out. Gassed up and took off with 611 gyro and thicker pickup hose in the fuel tank.

First think I noticed is that the tail is alot better. No more shaking back and forth during spoolup as before. 611 gyro seems to absorb vibrations much better than the 401 ever did. She was smooth and solid in a hover. Very nice. I thought my God looks like I got it. I tried the 2nd and 3rd speed. On idle up 2 no more slight rpms changes. Must be the thicker fuel line helping fuel flow to the engine. Cool! Went into vertical climbout, chop the thorttle and no hickup. OK good. On the way down it still overspeed when I drop collective. This is still a problem to address. My other one does the same sort of but this may be a little worse. Maybe I need to richen the engine somewhat, but it was smooth. If I richen it will burp da burp burp. If I leave it it will race.

Thinking about this:

Richening makes the engine run slower and needs more throttle to stay running. Burp da burp burp.

Leaning makes the engine run faster and needs less throttle to stay running. Smoother to smooth.

In the govenors case, I think it can only throttle back so much and this is what causes the racing problem. I need to figure out a way around this without making the engine burpy rich to solve it. Any ideas guys? Options are:

a) figure out how to change hidden parameters to make it thorttle back more.

b) try to play with the throttle linkage geometry

c) try to fool the gv-1 by saying idle is kill and kill is way past dead. This way it will throttle back more without knowing it.

I only got to fly about 5 minutes before I felt drops coming down. Landed with 3/4 tank and threw it in the trunk and went around the corner (1/2 mile) to the house. By the time I got home it was pouring out again. I didn't think I had time to defuel and I was right! Defueled in the garage.

At least I'm happy I got to try out the 611. One thing about that is that I noticed it drifting slightly left in a hover even though I turned it on in HH mode to learn zero. I didn't have time to fiddle as the rain was coming in 300 seconds so I just trimmed it about 5 right clicks to stop the rotation. Anyone can comment on this as well?

FYI....5.22 inches now after I typed this...STILL coming down!

-=>Raja.

MA 1005 Hanson 280, 4136 flts
Spectra 27 3DMax, 3200 flts
Whiplash V1 Hanson 300, 1430 flts
Whiplash V2 Hanson 300, 196 flts

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10-15-2005 02:04 AM  12 years agoPost 36
valerko

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ny,dutches county

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Same here.I'm in NY and haven't seen the sun for over a week.
Rain is screwing up my construction bussines too.

At least Santa showed up early this year and got me new Spectra,so I'll be busy building it.
Any tips,besides the ones already mentioned here.

BTW:how long it takes to build it.I've started already and it looks it's gonna be A LOT of late night.

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10-15-2005 03:39 AM  12 years agoPost 37
Toadster25

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Iowa

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I think that when you move the ruder stick back and forth fast 2 times it resets the gyro kind of like turning it off and back on. My 611 does this too. I also think that by flipping the switch from normal to hh twice really fast resets it too?
After my crash I looked at my gyro servo and noticed that it looks like the bearing on the output may be slightly loose. Could you look at yours and see if it has any movement. I have the optional servo supports for my servos but I didn't use it on the rudder because I didn't think it needed it and would just transfer more vibration to the servo but if I put it on that would help support the servo output bearing. Anyway I was just wondering if my servo was damaged in the crash. I don't really want to spend $45 for gears in the servo. I did strip the gears in one of my jr8311 servos but the gears for those are only around $3.00.

My hobby shop ordered my parts on Wendsday and they called me today and said they were already in, so if I don't have any problems I should have it ready to go again by Sunday.

I also noticed my 611 drifting a little too. I just stopped it with the trim. I have noticed it more than once. I adjusted the trim every time it does it. I don't know why it would do that because I thought that when ever you turn it on as long as you don't move the heli while it is powering up it should zero itself and I thought it should reset by flipping the mode switch but that didn't work for mine so I just adjusted the trim.

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10-15-2005 06:07 AM  12 years agoPost 38
rbort

rrProfessor

Franklin, MA - USA

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Some progress, gv-1 info of interest

Well since its STILL raining (6.61 inches fallen now) I spend the night in the basement fiddling. I created a setup on my dremel tool where I can spin the gv-1 magnets and put the sensor next to it to pickup engine rpms on the gv-1. I had to change the gear ratio to 12.25 to get the dremel tool speeds go from 1400 to 2000 rpms from slowest to fastest.

Next I spun the dremel tool at 1400, throttled up to 3/4 stick, enguaged the gv-1 (had to toggle the on/off switch) and watched the throttle servo move by the gv-1. As I speed up and slow down the dremel tool, the throttle servo follows. I see that it goes to full throttle when it needs to demand power and throttle back to about hover rpms only (not much less) even when I spin the main rotor (dremel -- fooled ya gv-1) at 2000 rpms. OK, this is my problem.

Next stop the hidden menu. There are many parameters there and my first guess was LmHV. This is originally set at 20%. I changed it to 10% and reran the test and it looked like it throttled back more. I changed it to 0% and reran the test and it throttled back more, so I turned off the gv-1 and verified that at 0% its throttling back to idle. Cool. Looks like its doing what I need it to do. I left it at 0% for now but I think probably I should bring it back up to 10% and run some field trials, if it ever stops raining! (6.73 inches showing now). At 0% it will be throttling back to idle and I think I want to throttle back to somewhere in the middle where the rotors will still be enguaged to the clutch. Tomorrow I will try to give it a test run and report the findings.

So, looking like I figured out a) above. If I am right then there is no need to setup the throttle servo to carb arm geometry so as to give it some bias in the beginning to compensate for the gas engine being more responsive than the nitro engine. I think the variable in the hidden menu is a much better adjustment than trying to monkey with the servo arm. Of course I could be wrong as this variable was my first guess but since it worked I didn't go further. It may be necessary for me to change something else, but I'm willing to test fly it as is and see how it performs. Once comfortable I think I will try a high altitude drop from idle up 1 or 2 and adjust the variable as high as possible and until there is no change in rpms.

The gyro drift thing is another bug to fix, I'll have to tackle that once I get the gv-1 behaving as expected. If this works there will be no more overspeeding for me or you if you have the same issue with a gv-1 .

Tips for the Spectra. Do NOT glue in the tail pushrod at both ends as its not going to be the right length. The instructions are for the original open case tailbox. Instead of pushing the threaded rod 25mm from the back side its supposed to be 35mm. The best appraoch is to completely assemble the front end and glue it, put in the tail servo, put in the pushrod to the tail servo, set all that, build the whole tail, and the last thing you do is apply jb-weld and push in threaded rod into the tail end until the arm is parallel to the tail case. This is while the rudder servo is powered up and centered. This way there is no guess work.

Other than that the kit went real fast for me and much quicker than the older 1005 gasser (less parts). Everything fit like a glove so you will be very happy with the quality and construction ease and no parts were missing in my case. I would suggest a larger fuel tank, dubro, see my pictures, and oh yes don't cut the fuel line to the pieces they tell you as you will be limited in options. Install the fuel line last after you have installed the tank and engine. This way you will cut exactly what you need in length and not a premeasured piece.

Good luck and enjoy the build process!

Oh yeah, 7.00 inches fallen on the dot at this time.

-=>Raja.

MA 1005 Hanson 280, 4136 flts
Spectra 27 3DMax, 3200 flts
Whiplash V1 Hanson 300, 1430 flts
Whiplash V2 Hanson 300, 196 flts

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10-15-2005 06:20 AM  12 years agoPost 39
valerko

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ny,dutches county

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Tailbox issue.

So ,open tail with updated gears is no good?
Everybody uses the "closed" one?

My kit has open tail box,with the new gears,was wondering if it's still OK to use it ?

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10-15-2005 06:48 AM  12 years agoPost 40
thenewguy

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Corvallis, Oregon​Where there is​liquid sunshine!

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I would say no. Just send it in and MA will replace it.

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