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HelicopterGasser Model RC HelicoptersOther › Spectra-g, any suggestions?
10-06-2005 02:23 PM  12 years agoPost 1
rbort

rrProfessor

Franklin, MA - USA

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Got my Spectra-G ready to go again last night for another day of trial runs at the field. So far I've had 4 flights with it and I couldn't get the Hanson 26 3D running right. Seems like the tail is kicking around and also when I switch to idle up it starts racing like its going lean and I interrupt it with throttle hold and bring it back down. I tried to tweak the needles left and right but no success as of yet. I read somewhere that I should be tweaking the high speed needle in a hover due to the 7.15 gear ratio, thought that was going to fix it, but no such luck yet.

I looked at the engine after the 4th flight and there seemed to be some leakage between the cylinder and case. So last night I split the heli in half, took the head off the engine and found alot of carbon caked on top of the piston and a heavy circular patch on 1/4 of the top of the cylinder. Using the trusty ZBest engine cleaner, I got all the carbon off and the piston and cylinder look like new now. Do scratches or damage and everything is smooth as silk.

I reassembled the head with a new head gasket hoping that I had an air leak there and that was my problem. I also checked in with BH Hanson and he said to remove the carbon carb spacer plate as I'm leaking air from there. I did have double gaskets around that plate and I even did try that on the field last time out but it didn't seem to make much difference. Now its back together with the plate again but I will take it out if I have no luck getting the engine to smooth out.

My questions to the Spectra users out there:

a) Do you use this carbon plate?
b) Is the fuel line suppled with the Spectra in the tank too small and would that cause the racing problem with the engine?
c) Is there anything else I should know and watch out for?

As an FYI, I'm still using the lawnboy breakin oil at 4oz per gallon at the moment.

Thanks for any input you can provide,

-=>Raja.

MA 1005 Hanson 280, 4136 flts
Spectra 27 3DMax, 3200 flts
Whiplash V1 Hanson 300, 1430 flts
Whiplash V2 Hanson 300, 196 flts

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10-06-2005 06:30 PM  12 years agoPost 2
Toadster25

rrKey Veteran

Iowa

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I use the carbon plate with a gaskets on both sides. I think the plastic spacer between the engine and the carb could be a problem. If it isn't flat where it bolts to the engine. I use the little pick up fuel line that came with my spectra and it doesn't seem to cause a problem for me.

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10-07-2005 01:07 AM  12 years agoPost 3
too many helis

rrNovice

windham maine

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raja,
I use the carbon plate with double gaskets, I drilled two holes in it to match the air passages in the carb and isolater block. be sure the isolater block isn't leaking. this is really easy to over tighten and warp the block I went through three of these before I relied on loc tite to hold the bolts.
I tried thicker line in the tank and it didn't make any difference. I even did away with the filter and used an inline gas filter. but this didn't help either.
I found that the low needle had the most effect on the hover speed< but this is coming from somone who needed your help to tune the engine. With the 3d max it didn't start running better until i switched to a synthetic oil and lowered the throttle mid stick to around 35%
Be sure no wires touch the carbon side frames. and now for the really bad news. beware this heli eats throttle servos for breakfast!! sunday I brought it out to burn a few tanks. did my fight check started the heli up brought it up to speed and the throttle stuck open on me, it ran for about 15 minutes wide open and there wasn't a thing i could do. I loaded the head with some negitive pitch so the engine didn't blow. very scary!! this heli has snapped 2 servo arms and stripped gears in three servos futuba 9252, jr 4721, and hitec 645 metal geared with a servo saver on it!! the hitec lasted the longest the first two were junk in the first month the hitec got me through the summer. I don't Know what to do now. M.A. says the heli isn't designed for hanson motors. and thats that. if you want to call me my phone # is 207-892-6471 I'll try to help you through the teething pains
steve
smrcha vp

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10-07-2005 03:55 AM  12 years agoPost 4
rbort

rrProfessor

Franklin, MA - USA

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Eating throttle servos? Not good!

Well I managed flights 5 and 6 today with no major issues. I did have to lean the low end until it smoothed out considerably. Not 100% but 90%. Alot better than it was before for sure. Still got the burpy burps here and there but they are more pronounced when I unload it and almost gone when loaded with pitch. I tried to lean it a smidgen more but I think I may be going too far as I tried a powered descent and it oversped when I dropped the collective even through it is on gv-1. Guessed I needed to richen it back to prevent the overspeed.

Still using the box muffler so it may be better with another muffler as I think the box pronounces the burps more. Still having trouble with the 401 gyro picking up vibrations especially on spoolup and wagging the tail back and forth. I can see the tail pitch changing back and forth while its getting up to speed. Also, if I climb up to 500 feet and hit throttle hold, on the way down in an auto my tail is wagging as the gyro is working the tail servo. I'm signed that off on waiting for my 611 to arrive tomorrow or Monday (shipped already) and will try again with the 611 and see if I have any better luck with that.

Speaking of eating throttle servos, on the 4th flight two days ago it suddenly quit. Was in a hover so no big deal. Went to see why and the JR throttle arm was sheared in half. Hmmm...never seen that before. I did flip it around that day and today I was using a heavy duty throttle arm just like I'm using on the main surfaces. (Big JR plastic giant scale arms). Assuming that is going to solve it, really do hope so as I don't want to be the guy who is hovering inverted and then the arm breaks and we go ooops.

I'm thinking about taking that carb plate off. Before I go out again I'll see that I need to do to get rid of it and adjust the throttle arm so it will work and not bind without it. Hanson doesn't like it and he wants it off.

What else....well almost done with the gallon of breakin fuel so after this is over I'll be switching to synthetic though not sure if its going to make a big difference but I do hope so. Would be nice. Also, another point I want to add is that the change of the head gasket seemed to have solved the problem with the lean run stuff and the racing of the engine when I went to idle up. Didn't do that at all today and bahaved as expected. Looks like I found one problem and fixed it, and, due to that I will probably not change the thin clunk line that Minair gives you, though I still have that as a thought in my mind.

I'll write some more if you guys are interested as my debugging flights continue. Next up is the 611 gyro and will replace the tail servo arm with a fatter giant scale one as who wants a servo arm to split in half on them!

6 flights to date on Spectra since 9/21/05
1475 flights on 1005 gasser since 9/22/97.

-=>Raja.

MA 1005 Hanson 280, 4136 flts
Spectra 27 3DMax, 3200 flts
Whiplash V1 Hanson 300, 1430 flts
Whiplash V2 Hanson 300, 196 flts

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10-07-2005 04:12 AM  12 years agoPost 5
GREYEAGLE

rrElite Veteran

Flat Land's

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Raja: Can you post a pick of this carbon plate, you guys are talkin about?
My ideas for what its worth.
Sucking air thru carb isolator. May need witness it and to block it a few swipes.
Bit of a blow by on one of the seals may be a bit dry since storage and should soften up and seat finially or has a bit mfg swarf in it.
May be a seat thing on the cylinder / head .May need to pressure test with a cyl / carb blocking plate, air chuck the plug with only a couple of Lb's and soap it looking for a leak.
Wonder after mod,s were their records or notes test ran?
Severe Jitters on my 1005 were solved only after tuning under real load conditions just keeps getting smoother.

I broke my 23 in on camper and 4 0z pens syn spueing rich on stand under no load for at least 4 tanks cooling 1/2 hour between tanks with the exhaust diapered to read the poo. Discription seems real rich but may not be up to temp. Careful sounds like lean run potential.

greyeagle

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10-07-2005 02:15 PM  12 years agoPost 6
AceBird

rrElite Veteran

Utica, NY USA

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Eating throttle servos? Not good!
Speaking of eating throttle servos, on the 4th flight two days ago it suddenly quit. Was in a hover so no big deal. Went to see why and the JR throttle arm was sheared in half. Hmmm...never seen that before..

----------End Quote

And you should never see it again! In the engineering sense of the word you have a serious problem. I don’t know didally about a Spectra G and even less about this 26 Hanson but everything points to the fact that there are severe vibration issues with the engine or your throttle linkage is not aligned right. You could stop the servo and linkage problems by mounting the servo directly to the engine case. So as the engine moves the servo goes with it, which will stop the pounding. However, the real problem is the vibration. There is nothing wrong with a 401 gyro. Solve the vibration issues and you will solve a lot of other issues down the road.

A pic of the linkage would help to annalyze if there are problems there.

Ace

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10-07-2005 02:37 PM  12 years agoPost 7
rbort

rrProfessor

Franklin, MA - USA

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I agree

I slept over it and woke up with a todo list today:

a) remove the carb spacer plate
b) install frame doublers on the main shaft -- got those on my 1005 and they help alot in reducing vibrations
c) pondered about the idea of swapping the 643 carb with a 167a carb. Engine will have a little less power but if I remember right from my previous test on my 1005 gasser it will run alot smoother.

Also the vibration showed up in the gas tank as a washing machine effect on the fuel. Will use that as an indicator that things are getting better or worse as I make changes. I had the washing machine effect before on a 99SE gasser, and it turned out one of the paddles had twisted a bit out of alignment. When I recentered it the problem went away.

Lastly the helicopter seemed to wander around a bit, not as solid in a hover. Its got the white paddles. Think about swapping them to the black ones with the set screws just like on my 1005 gasser. 28g versus 20g and should lock in better in a hover.

Will keep you guys posted on my progress. I'm going to figure this freakin' thing out one way or another!

-=>Raja.

MA 1005 Hanson 280, 4136 flts
Spectra 27 3DMax, 3200 flts
Whiplash V1 Hanson 300, 1430 flts
Whiplash V2 Hanson 300, 196 flts

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10-07-2005 03:11 PM  12 years agoPost 8
aileron bail

rrApprentice

The guy with the dog​named Aileron

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Get rid of servo arms

Get servo wheels the safest way to go

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10-07-2005 11:44 PM  12 years agoPost 9
Toadster25

rrKey Veteran

Iowa

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I just went to my hobby shop to buy a servo wheel for my JR 811 servo that I am using on for my spectra throttle but JR doesn't have a wheel big enough for the throttle. I am going to use the big JR arm on it, I guess. I haven't had any trouble with my throttle servo yet but I did notice on the inside of the canopy a mark from the servo arm rubbing the canopy. It doesn't seem to be a problem yet.

I hope to get alot of flights in on my spectra tomarrow. I will let you know if I have any problems. I had my spectra running prety good last Saturday but I checked the muffler after every flight to make sure it was tight and I am not sure if it was comming loose.

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10-08-2005 12:37 AM  12 years agoPost 10
aileron bail

rrApprentice

The guy with the dog​named Aileron

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Servo wheels

You can use Airtronics white wheels or Futaba wheels on JR servos but you cant use Jr wheels on Futaba servos but go with wheels i have futaba all around on 8311 DS JR .The spline is bigger on JR

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10-08-2005 01:02 AM  12 years agoPost 11
rbort

rrProfessor

Franklin, MA - USA

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Let us know how you make out

Tonight I got the frame doublers installed and I took off the carb spacer plate. Had to drill the throttle arm and move the ball closer to the carb so the pushrod will not hit the fan shroud. Worked out OK and I got 100/100 travel end to end. Started the motor and had to adjust the low end to 90 to keep the motor idling reliably.

Took a test hover in the back yard, seemed OK but the fuel was still swashing around in the tank. Don't like that washing machine effect! Will have to sleep over this one to see what I'm doing next.

Toadster, what engine are you using?

Also, you can use the JR large servo arms, I have some for giant scale airplanes and they seem to work OK. They are thicker and beefier than standard JR arms.

-=>Raja.

MA 1005 Hanson 280, 4136 flts
Spectra 27 3DMax, 3200 flts
Whiplash V1 Hanson 300, 1430 flts
Whiplash V2 Hanson 300, 196 flts

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10-08-2005 02:21 AM  12 years agoPost 12
Toadster25

rrKey Veteran

Iowa

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When I asked LHS if I could make the futaba servo wheel fit they said that it wouldn't fit so I went with the heavy duty/larger JR servo arm. rbort, I thought that the arm on the carburator was a little long and that is why I needed a larger servo wheel to use on my throttle servo. I am at 150% travel adjust both ways to make it open and close throttle all the way. I didn't think to drill a hole in it.

I am using a hanson modified engine I think it is the pro version. My fuel is going crazy also but I think that is probably going to be normal. Since this is my only gasser I don't have anything to compare it to though. I wonder if that big fuel pickup they have us use somehow keeps the air out because it sucks the fuel tank dry and I would think that as soon as the fuel get down to the pickup that it would suck air but it doesn't seem too.

What are the frame doublers? Are they the plates that you change for different gear ratios?

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10-08-2005 03:01 AM  12 years agoPost 13
aileron bail

rrApprentice

The guy with the dog​named Aileron

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When I asked LHS if I could make the futaba servo wheel fit they said that it wouldn't fit so I went with the heavy duty/larger JR servo arm
The spline on a JR is little bigger than futaba so when you press the wheel on its tighter
What are the frame doublers?
Frame stiffners

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10-08-2005 04:16 AM  12 years agoPost 14
rbort

rrProfessor

Franklin, MA - USA

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Frame doublers

The frame doublers are carbon plates that are cutout to match the top main frame section. There are 5 screws in that area, two in the top bearing block, two down below and one to the side. I removed all the screws on one side, removed the bell crank, and installed the carbon plate which is cutout to pass the bellcrank stud and center section to access the mast collars with longer screws. Put a tail blade aluminum spacer on the stud and put the bellcrank back. Added another doubler on the other side as well. This will stiffen the top main frame section and should reduce unwanted vibrations and wobbles. Will have to test fly it to see if it helped.

-=>Raja.

MA 1005 Hanson 280, 4136 flts
Spectra 27 3DMax, 3200 flts
Whiplash V1 Hanson 300, 1430 flts
Whiplash V2 Hanson 300, 196 flts

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10-08-2005 07:41 AM  12 years agoPost 15
thenewguy

rrElite Veteran

Corvallis, Oregon​Where there is​liquid sunshine!

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How many tanks of fuel have you run? My 231 from Hanson took about 3 gallons befor it was brook in. When I switched to synthic and had about 2 gallon threw the motor there was no vibration. Smooth as could be. All so Hanson says 1900 on the head speed is the golded number. After my motor was broke in and I felt good about it . I went up to 1900 on the head. Boy was he right about that. It's rock solid at 1900. It just takes awhile to break in the motor. But after its done, you will be happy with the Spectra. I also had problems with the throttle servo. Went threw 4 sets of servo gears. Was running a 9253 for quickness. My buddy told me I should run a cheap servo on the throttle. After I changed to a 3004 no problems. I just keep a eye on it, after acouple flight I tighten it up to make sure it's ok.

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10-08-2005 03:10 PM  12 years agoPost 16
rbort

rrProfessor

Franklin, MA - USA

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Some good points

Well first off you have a 231 which is what Minair recommends. I'm trying to run it with a Hanson 3D 26 which is more vibrant than all according to Hanson. His Pro is smoother, the 231 even smoother than that. I have a choice of engines at home, so maybe an engine musical chairs session is in order.

As it stands now, I have a G23 in my taylorcraft, a Hanson Pro in my 1005 gasser, and the Hanson 3D in my Spectra. Probably should swap at least the 3D with the Pro between choppers, or maybe even go to the extreme and swap the 3D with the 23 in the Taylorcraft. I could always use more power in the airplane, but would be nice to not lost alot of power in the chopper.

As far as the servo, I like your idea. I think I am going to remove my DS 811 servo and save it from having issues. Probably will find a cheap Futaba 3001 servo in one of my planes somewhere on the throttle and swap the 811 for that. Sometimes the cheapest of servos are better suited for the job than the top end ones it seems.

Not trying to scare anyone here, I just tell it how it is so stay tuned and will let you know how I make out getting this thing to go properly.

-=>Raja.

MA 1005 Hanson 280, 4136 flts
Spectra 27 3DMax, 3200 flts
Whiplash V1 Hanson 300, 1430 flts
Whiplash V2 Hanson 300, 196 flts

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10-08-2005 04:18 PM  12 years agoPost 17
aileron bail

rrApprentice

The guy with the dog​named Aileron

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8311 for throttle

I been flying a 8311 JR DS servo and its great... I am a firm believer you get what you pay for in servos i dont think thats a place to cut corners. Remove all doubt

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10-09-2005 12:11 AM  12 years agoPost 18
Toadster25

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Iowa

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I got about 5or6 flights on mine today and the torpedo V2 stayed on today. I am not saying that I don't think it will come loose yet only more time will tell. I do notice that it is leaking oil around the engine and muffler since I am not using a gasket and that makes a little bit of a mess that I don't like.

I did have another problem though, The rear landing strut bolts broke. I know that they broke and didn't just come loose because part of one was still there and the other one was completly gone. I don't think the bolt would have come up and out if the nut had just come loose. I think I may have overtightend them and that could have caused them to break?

My hanson G26 pro seems to be running good exept on the last flight I noticed it speed up like it might have been going lean. I thought I was low on fuel but when I checked it still had some in the tank. I am going to check all the carb bolts.

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10-09-2005 01:25 AM  12 years agoPost 19
thenewguy

rrElite Veteran

Corvallis, Oregon​Where there is​liquid sunshine!

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I have flown my spectra all summer . I check everything that I can every 2 to 3 flights. I have noticed that it is alot more maintance than a nitro bird at first. Once you get past all the tighting bolt stage from vibration, the heli becomes stable. One thing to keep in mind is replacing the links after so many gallons. I learned the hard way, had a link just pop off while at a hover. After inspection notice all links where way loose. Replaced them all for just acouple buck for a safety thing. You should inspect the spectra alot more often then a nitro. It my have it's little issues, but I like having to tinker with it. Just keep a close eye on things. One other thing you will find out , is the amount of play in the torque tube will get greater. After so many gallons. This is more from a flying style than anything. I took mine apart to find it had dimples inside the coupler on both ends. Not just small ones ether. Enuf play to turn the tail rotor almost a 1/4 way befor ingaging. When I think of more I will post.

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10-09-2005 01:32 AM  12 years agoPost 20
gyan

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Surrey, BC Canada or​Blaine Wa.

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Raja; one way I use to check for air leakage around the carb is to buy a can of either at the auto store & run the engine at idle while your holding the blade grip spray a little either at the suspect area, if the engine rpm increases you've got a leak. Hope that helps... good luck.

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