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HelicopterMain Discussion › Which charger to use?
05-04-2005 11:17 PM  12 years agoPost 21
badbradbreece88

rrApprentice

Northwest Ohio

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get the triton

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05-05-2005 05:24 AM  12 years agoPost 22
IMZ Caliber

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Chesapeake, VA USA

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If you understand how to read battery discharge curves the graphs can tell you a lot. Basically a true high current capability cell would have a flat discharge curve with a sudden dropoff at the end. Second you can find out what temperature the battery produces maximum output. If you fully peak a battery and let it sit till its room temperature(20min) then do a discharge you will see the voltage drop from the starting voltage and then actually increase in voltage as the temperature of the cell increases then it will start to drop again. This is why car racers setup thier chargers to finish charging the battery within 1minute of their next heat. If it peaks too early then they tend to re-peak. Doing this properly can give you .3-.5volts difference on a discharge. Also by looking at the graph you can see if the cells are starting to become unbalanced as a unbalanced HD pack will look like a steady line down to the cutoff voltage vs a flat constant line with a sudden drop. Some believe that i look into my batteries too much but when you fly a contest bird with 100's of setup hours that cannot simply be replaced by new parts i believe its worth it. Also our aircraft do not operate mainly off the engine, fuel, or your thumbs for that matter. In order to operate they must first have battery power. Without battery power not even failsafe will help the helicopter hit the ground with the engine off.

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05-05-2005 05:46 AM  12 years agoPost 23
Fullagas

rrKey Veteran

Michigan

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.
The Triton and Ice temp sensors look alike.

Verry odd, hmmm??

.

Flying helis since gyros had springs.

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05-05-2005 12:53 PM  12 years agoPost 24
onemetre

rrApprentice

Mansfield, Tx - USA

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IMO, The Orbit, already mentioned, or Schulze ISL 6-330 are the two chargers to own that won't need replacing.

I've owned many chargers prior to getting the Schulze. The 969 is flat dangerous and I had problems even accomplishing a form charge on NiMH batteries.

Icare has the best prices on Schulze that I've found. Great service as well.
http://www.icare-rc.com/chargers.htm#schulze

Rob

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05-05-2005 05:59 PM  12 years agoPost 25
jhugs

rrNovice

st charles mo

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Im going with the ice charger all the way! I love the display. It seems to have all the options and abilities to do what i need it to do. I already have a 12v lead battery charger.

I dont understand though how the triton charger is better for the buck than the ice. JKRU - please explain

Had to crash some time

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05-05-2005 06:02 PM  12 years agoPost 26
jhugs

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st charles mo

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IMZ Caliber - you seem pretty knowledgable about batteries and chargers and such. Which charger would you suggest and why? And i'm not charging lipo's. yet

Thanks in Advance!

Had to crash some time

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05-05-2005 07:59 PM  12 years agoPost 27
IMZ Caliber

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Chesapeake, VA USA

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Jhugs,

Thanx for the compliment. Lots of times i get the response that what i do to batteries is overkill but to me its totally worth it. I was driven to learn about batteries for to reasons. The first was that i was browning out the power bus on the recievers when i switched from the 501 to the 601 gyro. The second is because i race 1/12 scale cars and would be lying if i was just doing its to kill time. In order to keep up with the other guys you have to use great batteries. Unfortunately you can buy a great set of batteries but never get the full performance out of them because of charge and discharge issues. These issues can easily cost you .5-1 volt differences in output. That ofcourse relates to speed.

All that aside you asked which charger would i choose. You stated earlier that you are going to be charging 4cell gp3300 cells mainly. If thats your main concern then i would go with the ICE. The GP3300 chemistry has some interesting traits like optimum battery charge temperature, optimum delta peak setting, being able to take high charge currents for certain portions of the charge cycle, and resonding to battery training (aka: high current discharge). Ofcourse it will take a little time to learn what is the correct setup of charger to get max performance. Although it may be more than you were looking for its great to have for the future. It doesn't do lead acid but you can buy a cheap $20 trickle charger from walmart for lead acid batteries. The known ability to charge 1-10cell nicad/nimh cells are nice at the field. Ever got to the field with a dead ni-starter, just plug it in the ICE and setup for 8amps. I use Sanyo SCR2400's for my ni-starter batteries with large 16 gauge wire and deans ultra plug for charge leads. that is how i'm able to charge 8amps into that cell without false peak. I don't actually fully charge that battery at 8amps though usually just for 5min and then after the engine is started i'll use 5amps.

If by chance you have batteries large than 10cells then i would probably get the triton. That is the only reason to get the triton though. I dumped my triton because it could put out the current or discharge the current that i wanted. Thats when i picked up an Orbit Microlader charger.

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05-05-2005 08:28 PM  12 years agoPost 28
jkru

rrApprentice

Seattle, WA

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I don’t understand though how the triton charger is better for the buck than the ice
Other than the display and the increase in amperage the triton specs higher in terms of number of cells and the option for Lead acid. One guy did point out that led cells can be easily charged by any cheap 20 dollar charger and isn’t that big of a deal anyways. I agree but i still see it as 109 + 20 etc .

Anyways everyone can form there own opinion. The only reason I could see someone buying the ICE is because of its Larger LCD and ability to plot your discharge curve. I guess for me I asked my self do you want a robust battery charger? Or do you want a fancy screen with a graph ?

Just to follow up on discharge curve. What this will show you is when you’re current drops over a given applied voltage (In other words, when your battery is going dead). NiCd and MiMH are flat. The graph will show you nothing spectacular that the time to discharge won’t.

My recommendation is go for a usable feature set. The graph is just added decore IMHO.

JKru

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05-05-2005 08:43 PM  12 years agoPost 29
jkru

rrApprentice

Seattle, WA

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Actually there is one other thing the ICE charger would be good for and this is somthing I forgot to mention or think about. Finding the sweet spot on your battery. Also determining the length of this sweet spot.

Just some information the sweet spot is basically the point were your voltage remains the same for a period of time. (Flat graph)

I wish I had a graph to show you

JKru

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05-05-2005 08:49 PM  12 years agoPost 30
IMZ Caliber

rrApprentice

Chesapeake, VA USA

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Not all nicad and nimh at flat discharge curves. Thats exactly the point. As they are used more they get closer to a continous decending slope with no drop off at the end. Although that may sound good it doesn't offer the maximum amount of wattage to the servos and reciever. I see the triton as weak but robust charger and if thats what you are looking for then by all means go with it. The triton is a few years old now and the ICE was brought out because people bought the triton and were disappointed in it because of performance. So yes it does one more chemistry and 14 more cells. If the range of batteries you need to charge is not in that other chemistry or the 11-24 cell count. Then is the added capability worth the limit in charge current and discharge current. Albeit that I dont use the graph on the ICE much since at the field i'm mainly using it as a charger. I have a CBA and an Oribit that i can graph and store my discharge curves with. Thats $400 worth of extra epuipment that i personally use. I dont say buy the ICE for its graphing capabilities. I say buy it for the charge current capability. Also most electric pilots are now going to lipo packs vs 12-30cell nicad packs. If you were to charge 4s 8000mah packs on the triton you would be there for almost 4hrs waiting. this is because of how weak the max charge wattage is on the triton. Its only capable of a max of 2.5amps. Where as on the ICE you would simply wait 1.5hrs. My time is worth the extra $20 at walmart for the PB charger.

You said go for the usable feature set. I agree with that. I believe the ability to fully charge GP3300 4cell batteries in 30minutes from a fully depleted state a usable feature set. On the other hand the triton which is still max out at 2.5 amps for a 4cell GP3300 (checked yesterday at LHS) will take 1.32 hours to complete charge as well as not be up to optimum temperature. I'm not making recomendations on charge rates. I'm just pointing out limitations in potential. If we were charging 6cell gp3300 then the triton is able to max out at 4.5amps.

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05-05-2005 08:55 PM  12 years agoPost 31
jhugs

rrNovice

st charles mo

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THANKS IMZ!!!

Your response was very descriptive and informative. I had to read it a couple of times to understand some of the things you were talking about. Pretty complicated stuff when your not familiar with it. Im finding it hard to take in all the information about charging, peaking, false peaking, delta peak settings, and so on. Im sure I can figure it out.

Had to crash some time

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05-05-2005 08:55 PM  12 years agoPost 32
jkru

rrApprentice

Seattle, WA

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IMZ Caliber makes a very good point. Anyone want to buy a triton? LOL

JKru

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05-05-2005 09:19 PM  12 years agoPost 33
IMZ Caliber

rrApprentice

Chesapeake, VA USA

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I have a graph that someone can post on here of a discharge i did on GP3300 cells at 5 amps. If someone would like to post it for me pm me with an e-mail address that i can send it too. The graph shows what happens when the cells are left idle for 1 hour after full charge and fresh off the charge. You can actually see where the cell started to warm up and the voltage increased slightly.

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05-06-2005 01:29 AM  12 years agoPost 34
PaulH-MA

rrVeteran

Boston, MA

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The only batteries that I have right now are NiMH. I have a SuperBrain 959 that works very well. It's not as flexible as some of the newer chargers, but it can run off of a 12v battery or mains. The main plug and transformer are built right in.

The only down-side is that if you try to rapid charge packs at 3.5-4.5 A the charger will heat up a bit. You can only do a few in a row like this before the thermal shutdown kicks in. As I normally slow-charge my packs at 0.5-1.0 A this has never been a problem.

The 959 is a good deal for $50! If I were to buy a charger today, the ICE would be pretty high on my list.

--Paul

TREX 450
Bergen Intrepid Gasser x2

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HelicopterMain Discussion › Which charger to use?
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