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HelicopterBeginners Corner › Known problems with TT PRO36H?
05-02-2005 07:44 AM  12 years agoPost 1
kwong2001

rrNovice

Federal Way, WA

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Okay, i've had a Thunder Tiger Pro36H sitting around for about 8 years, never ran, never installed, never seen fuel, never messed with period.

Make a long story short, this weekend I was doing a hardcore attempt to break in the engine. I could not get it to fire at all. I've done absolutely everything possible, and could not get the engine to fire, or show signs of wanting to run at all. You name it, i've done it, it just doesn't wanna run.

While i've ordered a new OS 32SX-H, was wondering, anyone know of any problems associated with the 36 sized thunder tigers engines?

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05-02-2005 04:03 PM  12 years agoPost 2
mobywho

rrApprentice

Duluth, GA

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That is the exact same engine I got in raptor 30. I got mine to start at low needle setting at 1.75 turn out and high needle setting at 2 turn out.
This setting is using stock muffler and no header tank.

I'm still trying to figure mine out to get proper mixture setting but the above setting will get your engine started.

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05-02-2005 05:09 PM  12 years agoPost 3
MAH

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Galesburg, Il.

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There were two versions of this motor and at least
two different carbs and several different low speed
needles. You will often find them mixed and matched,

Old style motor with newer carb and newer motor with old style
carb. All pretty much suffer from the same problems. An
extremely sensitive idle needle and an extreme rich spot at
about 1/3 throttle.

Given all that I really liked this motor. I have two of them
and once broken in they run terrific. Its getting them set up
in the first place and getting them broken in thats the problem.

First make sure you have a good plug. OS #8 or Enya # 3.
Then its just a matter of getting the needles right. The settings
that mobywho gave should be close enough to start.

If you give up on it and decide to go with the easier to tune
OS32 then send me your old TT36. I'll put it to good use.

Mike Hammer
Galesburg,Il

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05-02-2005 05:32 PM  12 years agoPost 4
mobywho

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Duluth, GA

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MAH,

Care to share som tips on how to tune this engine?

I start with the setting above the engine seem to run lean, so I
open up the high needle a bit. Found that when I open up the high
needle at 1/4 turn at a time till engine hoover at about 230F at the cylinger head. Temp is check with raytek aiming at the glow plug area. But, when engine head at around 230F real rough idle and engine strugle all the way to half stick. At this point I have to lean out the low end needle to about 1.5 turn getting better respond from low stick to middle stick but now engine run hot again. Now my low end setting is about 1.25 turn and high at 4 turn out still not run smooth and I got oil all over my raptor.

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05-02-2005 06:45 PM  12 years agoPost 5
kwong2001

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Federal Way, WA

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Well the factory settings are 2 turns on the HSN. I tried starting anywhere from 1 turn, to 3 turns. 3 turns is got pretty close to flooding it really bad, and when i went a bit farther, it flooded so bad the electric drill I was using couldn't turn the motor at all.

I mean, i've really done everything to get it to show signs of wanting to start. I've made sure there was in fact fuel in the engine, so at least i'd know if it's a fuel delivery problem if the engine started then died.

I've tried starting at anywhere from idle, to full throttle. Nothing worked. And the plug I was using was a brand new OS #8, which I confirmed several times that it lit up bright orange/red when put on the glow igniter.

Used both the factory gasket, and the one for 30% to try to drop the compression to within reason.

It just plain won't start.

also, one thing to note, i've taken apart the carb and couldn't find anything wrong with it. Also found the carb only has a HSN, no LSN at all. Not sure what the new ones have.

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05-02-2005 06:58 PM  12 years agoPost 6
nivlek

rrProfessor

Norfolk England

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I've done absolutely everything possible, and could not get the engine to fire, or show signs of wanting to run at all. You name it, i've done it, it just doesn't wanna run.
As you've done absolutely everything possible , how can we suggest anything ? It's obviously a faulty engine and should be replaced .

At the end of the day , it gets dark .

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05-02-2005 07:00 PM  12 years agoPost 7
mobywho

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Duluth, GA

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The LSN is inside the lever if you look you will see. Funny that you mention starting with a drill. You will be able to start with a drill once you set the needle set correctly. I have try to start my heli with a drill too, that did not work out for me. I end up getting a real starter and have no trouble starting my engine.

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05-02-2005 07:06 PM  12 years agoPost 8
kwong2001

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Federal Way, WA

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Well, the compression was so high, the normal airplane starter struggled to turn it over. That's why I started using a normal drill since the torque is much higher.

Anyhoo, I guess there is a LSN...lol. Anyone know the factory settings? All my instructions say is 2 turns which i would assume is the HSN, but it doesn't say exactly.

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05-02-2005 07:14 PM  12 years agoPost 9
MAH

rrApprentice

Galesburg, Il.

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Care to share some tips on how to tune this engine?
Well its a tricky beast to tune. Its all in the low speed
needle.

Once you get it running and warmed up do the pinch
test at idle. Pinch the fuel line about an inch from the
carb. If its dies the idle needle is too lean. If it continues
to run for several seconds then speeds up then dies then
you are a bit too rich. You want it to take just a second or so
then speed up.

The TT36 needs to have a rather lean idle mixture. More so
than the OS32. Get the idle set right then set the high speed
needle by doing full throttle climb outs.

The idle needle is very sensitive. 1/8 turn is a LARGE adjustment.
Keep ajusting in very small increments until you find the sweet spot.

If your motor is not broken in it will tend to get pretty hot.
In that case richen up the idle mixture a bit. The TT36 carbs
have a rich spot at about 1/3 throttle. This will be a problem
until the motor is broken in. Once broken in you can lean out
the idle mixture enough that this rich spot goes away. But if you
try to lean it this much before its fully broken in it will overheat.

I wouldnt put too much faith in those temp guns. They can lead
you astray. Instead calibrate your index finger. After running a
few minutes stick your finger in the back plate. If you jump up
and down and yell a lot its too lean. If its lukewarm you are too rich.
You want it very warm to mildly hot. If you can stick your finger in
there for a few seconds you are about right.

Mike Hammer
Galesburg,Il

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05-02-2005 07:23 PM  12 years agoPost 10
MAH

rrApprentice

Galesburg, Il.

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it just plain won't start.
If it wont even fire at all and you have a good glo plug
and good glo plug battery and there is fuel flow then
its probably that your idle needle is too far out of
adjustment.

Is there raw fuel coming out the muffler? Then probably too
rich and the engine is flooded. Nothing coming out of
the muffler at all? Then probably too lean and the engine
is starved for fuel.

You mention using a cordless drill. Perhaps its not turning
the engine over fast enough? If its a brand new engine it
will be very tight and hard to turn over. A trick one of the old
plank guys in our club uses on new tight motors is to warm
the engine up a bit with a heat gun. That will loosen it up a bit.

Dont get too concerned what the factory settings are or what others
use for their needle settings. Chances are they wont be right for you.
You need to find out what your engine needs in your environment.

Mike Hammer
Galesburg,Il

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05-02-2005 07:52 PM  12 years agoPost 11
kwong2001

rrNovice

Federal Way, WA

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Well, after cleaning up the engine to ensure there wasn't any unburnt fuel, I used the minimal amount of after run oil upon reassembly. The airplane starter still would not turn over the engine. It could turn it over for maybe two or three rotations at best, then it'd freeze up. A fresh 12V battery was used with the airplane starter, and I know that wasn't the problem.

I dunno, I may try messing with the LSN later today, but it seems pretty hopeless.

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05-02-2005 10:50 PM  12 years agoPost 12
MAH

rrApprentice

Galesburg, Il.

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A fresh 12V battery was used with the airplane starter, and I know that wasn't the problem.
I never had that much problem with my trusty old standard Sullivan
starter. Even on a TT50 and lots of 46-50 sized plank motors.

You sure your 12 volt battery is good? What starter are you using?
It sounds suspiciously like a weak 12 volt battery.

If all else fails run the starter on 24 volts. That will surely crank it
over smartly. Be forewarned though. 24 volts can break things
if you hydrolock the motor.

Mike Hammer
Galesburg,Il

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05-02-2005 11:57 PM  12 years agoPost 13
kwong2001

rrNovice

Federal Way, WA

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The battery I used was brand new, bought that same day. The power panel showed a green light meaning it was good.

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05-03-2005 12:48 AM  12 years agoPost 14
MAH

rrApprentice

Galesburg, Il.

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The battery I used was brand new, bought that same day.
Ah. Probably in need of a charge then. If its the common 12 volt
7 amp hour gel cell they need periodic charging to maintain their
charge level even just sitting on the shelf.

If you have a digitial volt meter you can get a rough estimate
of its state of charge by measuring the terminal voltage after the
battery has rested at least 4 hours. 12.0 volts means 0% charge.
13.0 volts means 100% charge. The relationship is roughly linear.
So if you read 12.45 volts thats roughly 45% charged. Its not exact
but close enough for our purpose.

Anything below 12 volts is bad. Usually means a dead or weak cell.

Note that these measurements are only valid after the battery has rested.
It will read high after being charged and read low after being used.

Mike Hammer
Galesburg,Il

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