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HelicopterRadio - Servo - Gyro - Gov - Batt › 9254 tail servo with extension casuing R\F glitches
04-03-2005 04:48 PM  13 years agoPost 1
I3DM

rrProfessor

Israel

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Hello guys,

im trying to figure out a PCM Fail Safe lock problem on my X-spec, and to help me figure it out i grabbed an FM Rx to do some testing, and to be able to see the glitches, rather then having it lock.

here is the history of the problem, most of whats rellevant is on Page 3:
http://www.runryder.com/helicopter/p1289284

anyway, i just plugged in the new FM Rx, and noticed severe glitching coming and going on the ground, they seemed more severe if i touched the heli (or even the Tx!) in different places.

anyway, after a while playing with this i noticed that when i turn on the radio, as soon as the (CSM SL560 Micro) gyro initializes, all servos start to jitter slowly, with the system being very sensitive to touching. thinking further, i disconnected the (heavy duty) extension running between the tail servo and gyro, from the gyro side and the glitching stopped completely ! i couldnt get it to glitch no matter what i did as long as the extension was disconnected.

thinking this might be a bad servo, i tried a new 9254 i had at home, with the exact same results, i then grabbed one of my Airtronics 94758Z servos and plugged it into the extension instead of the 9254's - everything worked fine !

thinking further, i tried the 9254 on the extension again - got glitches ! took it out of the extension and plugged it into the gyro directly - everything works again !! then it hit me - it must be the extension wire (but how did it work well with the 94758Z? :confused, so i tried another heavy duty extension - with the same results - 9254's on both extensions caused glitches, and plugged directly they were fine - no glitches, but the 94758Z digital does work well on those extensions.

the extensions im using are by GWS i think, theyre coloed like JR connectors with heavy duty wires. wish i had a Futaba wire to try just for kicks...

what do you guys think ?
did anybody encounter anything like this ?
i checked about the 9254 and i dont see any reason why not use it in FM, or why not use an extension, like most people ?

Please advice.
thanks for reading the long post.

www.liorzahavi.com

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04-03-2005 06:24 PM  13 years agoPost 2
I3DM

rrProfessor

Israel

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Hey man,

this is a CSM SL560 Micro gyro running on 5.1V duralite regulator, with a 4000 Mah pack.

to get the gyro on the back of the model i would have to use a special gyro mount, that i dont have right now, but i have been flying with extensions like this for years - this is just too strange !

the antenna is completely clear of everything you mentioned.

www.liorzahavi.com

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04-03-2005 06:30 PM  13 years agoPost 3
I3DM

rrProfessor

Israel

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Yes i did.
crystals are good.

www.liorzahavi.com

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04-03-2005 06:30 PM  13 years agoPost 4
Greg McFadden

rrKey Veteran

Richland, WA

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try a different extension length. I had a similar problem with an elevator servo on my x-cell SE. No matter which servo I used, if I used a 12" extension, somehow it caused lockout. I have my suspects of why, but switching to a longer or shorter lead would fix it.

The silence often, of pure innocence persuades, when speaking fails

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04-03-2005 06:41 PM  13 years agoPost 5
Jasper7

rrKey Veteran

Birmingham , UK

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If you can spare the Extention, cut the extra wire at each end of the plug, so you only have the Black and red, maybe its picking something up on that extra wire and its getting fed to the servo

Steve

Jasper 7
T-Rex 700N
T-Rex 600N
T-Rex 450Pro

Citizen Number: 00212

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04-03-2005 06:48 PM  13 years agoPost 6
Jasper7

rrKey Veteran

Birmingham , UK

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Ahhhhhhhhhh dumb me, just looked at my kit

Steve

Jasper 7
T-Rex 700N
T-Rex 600N
T-Rex 450Pro

Citizen Number: 00212

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04-03-2005 07:17 PM  13 years agoPost 7
I3DM

rrProfessor

Israel

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Heheh.. i wont be cutting any wires here !

slyons2, i turned everything on and disconencted the wires going to the Rx one by one, none cured it, only when the tail servo is out of the extension the system gets quiet..

i just got this by PM from an RR user:
Hi I3DM,

I had a major glitch problem using the CSM 560 micro SL gyro and the futaba S9254 servo on my Raptor 90 with the rear mounted tail rotor servo. On PPM it went nuts and PCM it was super notchy...not flyable. I found it to be the long servo extension running from the rear of the heli (over the CF frames) up to the gyro mounted in front of the collective tray. I just moved the servo up front eliminating the extension and ALL of my problems went away. Can you move the servo up front on the X-spec? The CSM gyros are "dirty" and if you run extensions with the wrong servos they'll go nuts. You might try a "noise-trap" on the servo extension if you choose to fly the servo on the boom.

www.liorzahavi.com

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04-03-2005 07:50 PM  13 years agoPost 8
I3DM

rrProfessor

Israel

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Well i cant move the servo up front, but i can put the gyro on the back if i install a special gyro mount from Hirobo..

anyone else has an idea ?

anyone else running a 560 Micro \ 9254 ?

www.liorzahavi.com

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04-03-2005 07:59 PM  13 years agoPost 9
Jamovich

rrVeteran

Bangalore, India

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hmm
Just use a "noise trap"

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04-03-2005 08:12 PM  13 years agoPost 10
heligoole

rrKey Veteran

yorkshire,uk

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does this happen with aerial collapsed?

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04-03-2005 08:16 PM  13 years agoPost 11
I3DM

rrProfessor

Israel

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Colin,

that can not be done, but i can move the gyro backwards using the 0403-022 gyro mount from Freya EX.

but this is a little strange, my other Freya doesnt have this problem, and so does my friend's, so i would really like to figure out why this is actually happening !

heligoole, the Rx aerial is in its tube, fully open.

www.liorzahavi.com

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04-03-2005 08:24 PM  13 years agoPost 12
I3DM

rrProfessor

Israel

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BTW guys - i tried it with a 9206 servo just for kicks, and the interference was even worse !

www.liorzahavi.com

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04-03-2005 08:25 PM  13 years agoPost 13
I3DM

rrProfessor

Israel

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i tried this with 2 different gyros and 2 (or 3) different Futaba servos - all the same !!

www.liorzahavi.com

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04-03-2005 10:46 PM  13 years agoPost 14
amitush25

rrApprentice

netanya - israel

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lior
try to unplag one of the regulator and check it....

align T-REX600n SUPER pro, 8717, SOLID-G, radix, DX7

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04-03-2005 10:55 PM  13 years agoPost 15
I3DM

rrProfessor

Israel

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this is all done with 1 regulator.
thanks.

www.liorzahavi.com

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04-03-2005 11:19 PM  13 years agoPost 16
Bushy

rrVeteran

Tucson, AZ

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Try putting a few twists in the leads from the servo to the gyro. This can help cancel noise induced in the wire harness.

Dave

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04-04-2005 06:47 AM  13 years agoPost 17
Ali92124

rrApprentice

San Diego, CA

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I3DM
Have you tried putting a Toroid Choke on that extension cable (I'm assuming that is what CollinB was suggesting by "noise-trap").
Hope this url below shows a clear picture. The chokes also come in small round ferrite cores that you can just wrap the extenstion wire around a few times (just make sure the center hole is big enough for servo lead). You should be able to find these in any electronics store.
http://www.radioshack.com/product.a...duct_id=273-104
---
Ali

I dont need no stiiiiiinkin signature.

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04-04-2005 11:48 AM  13 years agoPost 18
I3DM

rrProfessor

Israel

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i will also try to locate one of those things..

www.liorzahavi.com

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04-04-2005 04:35 PM  13 years agoPost 19
NRoof

rrApprentice

Palmyra, NY

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I've recently developed the same or similar problem.
I have the older CSM560 (larger size) with a 9254 on my Voyager. I am using a PPM receiver. I am not using an extension between my gyro and servo. I am also using a 3300ma nimh battery pack.

I started having glitching problems. All my servos were glitching in a predictable pattern (it would happen at regular intervals).

I went through the following.
Unplugged the gyro from the receiver and the glitching stopped.
Unplugged the tail servo from the gyro and the glitching stopped.

I noticed that the glitching wouldn't start until the gyro fully initialized (red LED came on). Once that was on the glitching would start.

A friend loaned me a 401 to try.
I turned on the heli with the 560 and the glitching was there.
I installed the 401 and the glitching was gone.
I reinstalled the 560 and the glitching was back.
I then mounted the 401 and the 560 is being shipped back to CSM to have it checked out.

I had this problem awhile ago and thought it might be the servo so I purchased the 9254 and the problem went away for awhile. Unfortunately it's back.

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04-07-2005 04:15 PM  13 years agoPost 20
I3DM

rrProfessor

Israel

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OK guys,

just another example - i installed a 9253 on a completely different machine today, and this machine never had any lockouts whatsoever.
about 1 minutes after i played with the tail servo setup, the radio (PCM) locked into F\S. this machine also uses an extension cord on the tail servo.

there is obviously a problem running this combo (Airtronics radio \ CSM 560 \ Futaba tail servo on an extension).

is anyone else running this setup ?

i called CSM but Colin (the electronics wiz) was out, he should call me back and i will consult him what to do, and post any findings.

thanks.

www.liorzahavi.com

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HelicopterRadio - Servo - Gyro - Gov - Batt › 9254 tail servo with extension casuing R\F glitches
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