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Zoom › electric heli newbie need help w/ electrics
04-01-2005 10:12 PM  13 years agoPost 1
rwithey

rrNovice

Chehalis, WA - USA

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I currently fly a Raptor 30v2 and have ordered a Shogun 400 knockoff for simple indoor flying in bad weather. I have no electrics experience and have heard the knockoff electronic components are junk so I am asking for help in selecting replacement electronics that are reasonably priced, so I can save my $$$ for the real heli(nitro). I don't do 3D and therefore don't need ultra-performance. I am looking to hover and putt around the house with reasonable run times. I was thinking about a GWS 6 channel reciever & Hitec HS 56 servos. I am not sure about the following and am looking for suggestion and explanations:

Brushless or brushed motor and why?
What ESC for the motor and why?
Lipo, Nicad or Nimh and why?
What voltage and why?
Do I need a regulator to lower voltage for reciever and servos? If so any suggestions?

I am going to use this heli with my Futaba 7CHP. Do I need a mixer board I see mentioned in some micro-heli setups?

Any other suggestions/recomendations for this setup.
Thanks for any help,
Rob

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04-01-2005 10:38 PM  13 years agoPost 2
leslie

rrKey Veteran

Hollis, NH - USA

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okay, I'll give this one a try.

brushless -> more efficient, more powerful, less weight.

esc -> Castle Creations 35 has a 3amp BEC, sufficient for 4 servos.(the CC 25 has 1.5 amp BEC and is marginal for 4 servos.

lipo -> more current/weight. generally less weight. downside is expense and they require a charge specific to lipos. For the zoom I would (and do) go 3 cell 1320 mah or 2100mah (ish)

regulator, no

you will also need a gyro. I prefer a futaba gy240 heading hold gyro. With heading hold you don't need (or want) revo mixing. Mixing is usually done with your radio, assuming it has revo mixing. I'm not that familiar with your radio, so you'll have to check the manual or experience from your other copter.

I'm using a berg 6ch rx, from articles on the board it seems more glitch proof than the gws. I am using the gws 6ch on my other electric and I do have glitching problems. Again do a search here and you'll see the pros and cons. (generally cost vs quality)

take this all with a grain of salt, I've been flying electrics for about 18 months, and a new zoom owner of 2 weeks.

my zoom setup is:
himax brushless motor 2025-4200
castle creations phx-35
berg 6ch rx
thunder power 3 cell lipos 1320mah
futaba gy2400 heading hold gyro
jr 6102 airplane/heli tx


As a side note, I'm very pleased with the zoom and my set up. I've been flying a hummingbird fixed pitch for 18 mo. the zoom is awesome, but a little big and fast for indoors, unless you've got some good space.

hope this helps,
Leslie

Protecting those who protect us

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04-01-2005 11:50 PM  13 years agoPost 3
TonyTypeS

rrElite Veteran

New Orleans, LA & El Monte, CA

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I use the GWS 6 channel reciever an do not get glitches. I have the rx mounted away from any electric stuff to be safe. Maybe im just lucky. Well I get them once a blue moon, but not frequently. If I were you i would use a couple bucks more and get the berg to be on the safe side.

You might want to use the hs50 for the tail just to keep the weight down. You would want a fast servo for the tail. The hs56 will do but it is .02sec slower than the hs50. Most people seem to be using the hs55 for the cyclic and hs50 for the tail. Before i crashed mines I used the hs56 all around and loved it. There strong and do not develope slop like other servos do. Over time the hs50 will slow down due to normal wear. BTW you are 3times less likely to break the hs56 in a crash than the hs50.

If you are planning to use a heli indoor than i don't think that it would be a good idea to fly a shogun unless your house is really big. Have you thought about the FP heli's. There great for indoors and really durable if you crash into something due to the low headspeed. But if you want something that you can fly both indoors and out i would get the hummingbird elite CP or the new pro3D. Parts are cheap and flies really great. If you got the money the hornet would be even better but will cost you some $$$ if you have a crash.

No mixerboard needed if you are using the Futaba 7c

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04-02-2005 12:50 AM  13 years agoPost 4
HugeOne

rrKey Veteran

Quebec, Canada

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Fot the motor I'll go for the 400DH from justgofly.com, or the park 400, cheap and reliable. Don't forget the 8T pinion from like90.

Change the stock foamies blades for fiberglass or carbon.

Use HS-56 more power and precision than HS-50-55, on 6V they are the best choice at my opinion.

A carbon push rod for the tail linkage is very usefull.

The stock input/output gear are weak, microheli's blue gear make the tail far more reliable.

Conclusion: to make that heli reliable (not powerfull) just reliable you got to put many $$$ on it, sold mine because of this. I buy an eolo and it cost less...

Raptor e620 w/V-bar, Tango 45-06, Phoenix 85HV, TrueRC 12S1P 4000mAh

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04-02-2005 07:04 AM  13 years agoPost 5
rwithey

rrNovice

Chehalis, WA - USA

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So will the stock motor run on 11.1v LiPo's if I upgrade the rest of the electrics, not sure I want to spend the $$$ on brushless ESC & motor. Will the stock motor and Speed 400 type brushed motors burn up on a 11.1v LiPo? Brusched ESC's and motors seem alot cheaper than the brushless types.

How well and how long will the heli run on the stock motor and the stock 10.8v 650mah NiMH battery. Again, I will not be doing 3D.

Thanks for everyones help so far, am learning alot.

Rob

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04-02-2005 07:27 AM  13 years agoPost 6
wings

rrApprentice

Stafford, UK

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the stock motor was never rated to run at 11.1v. I don't think it would last very long. brushless is the way forward and will drastically increase flight times - well worth the money in my opinion. You could always run the stock motor for a while but then you would have to replace the ESC when you upgraded. I chose to bite the bullet and bought brushless from the outset. I was very impressed and can fly for upto 15 mins per battery.

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04-02-2005 02:52 PM  13 years agoPost 7
BlakeMcBrayer

rrElite Veteran

Georgetown, Ky

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Everyone's suggestions here have been spot on. Especially on the Berg 6 channel Rx, it is the surest way to avoid glitching. Alot of people are not getting glitchs from other brands, but I feel the Berg is the least likely to give you troubles.

Now, I'm not trying to talk you out of a Shogun, but it's not well suited for at home indoor flying unless you have a BIG house with WIDE OPEN spaces and HIGH ceilings. Even in it's totally stock form, it's pretty darn fast! A good brushless setup can reach near 30 nitro speeds in foward flight. They are also not as stable as your Raptor 30, thus needing more room to fly/hover. I have a 2 1/2 car garage and it has enough room to hover around abit, and fly some same 6 foot circles, but that is about it. Even the stock foam blades will damage and or cut into things around the house too. I still get flack from my wife about the coffee table leg!

I just wanted to offer some food for thought.

.

Don't come off the throttle untill you see your GOD!

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04-02-2005 05:22 PM  13 years agoPost 8
rwithey

rrNovice

Chehalis, WA - USA

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Thanks to everyone for your input. Unfortunately, I ordered the heli then started this thread after doing research on what I had just ordered. I know, backasswards, should have done the research first - but then I never would have started this thread - would not have bought it!

Anywho.....my reason for ordering this for indoor was I thought it would be more stable than a Hummingbird FP I flew a few times in my house that belongs to my father. I liked the idea of it being closer to my Raptor.

Looks like I should have ordered a real Shogun kit and then bought the electrics...gonna cost the same in the long run. I will take everyones advise and go brushless & LiPo. I will get the Hitec servos and a 401 Gyro (got one on the Raptor too). I will probably get the blue tail gears/shaft once I break the original ones.

One more question though....

I have a spare Futaba 127DF receiver for my 7CHP. Is there room for it on the Shogun? As far as weight, I thought I might remove it from the plastic case and wrap in heatshrink or paper (like the GWS)

Thanks again all,
Rob

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04-02-2005 08:24 PM  13 years agoPost 9
BlakeMcBrayer

rrElite Veteran

Georgetown, Ky

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I'm not familiar with that Rx, so I wouldn't be able to help on that one.

If you do want to fly it indoors, keep everything about the head stock, so the cyclic will be nice and calm.

Look at the bright side, you will have a nice little heli that you can walk out your front door and fly around on those calm evenings when it's to late to fly the Raptor. I usually go out alittle before sunset and fly a couple of times every evening I can. I live in a subdivision, so the Gun is a semi safe option for those "just gotta fly moments" at home, where as the nitro are not.

I think you find it to be a blast. Just resist the urge to sledge hammer it at first, once all the bugs are gone they are awsome. I have flown my for up to 3 months at a time without having to much to it.

Don't come off the throttle untill you see your GOD!

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04-03-2005 01:58 AM  13 years agoPost 10
zoom

rrElite Veteran

Galveston, Texas

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I found some cheap 400DF motors if anyone needs one. I'm going to pick up another one for my jet.

http://rotorworks.net/viewtopic.php?p=7445#7445

They have a deal on them for $40

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