RunRyder RC
 5  Topic Subscribe
WATCH
 1 page 1558 views POST REPLY
Helicopter
e-
Align
Other › TP2100's Swelling.
04-01-2005 09:57 AM  13 years agoPost 1
nedyah

rrApprentice

South Australia

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Is it common for the TP2100's cells to swell up a little after several uses/charges?

It is especially a little worse after a flight where it gets quite hot (~60C), but goes down a little, once it cools down. But not much.

This is my setup:

T-rex 450XL
Align 400SF, 2800kv, 13T.
PH-35.
3S TP2100
Wood Blades 315.


PH-35 settings.

Cutoff Voltage: Custom 8.2v
Current limiting: Insensative
Brake: Disabled
Throttle: Fixed
Timing: Advance
Cutout: Soft
Soft Start
13 khz freq.

.

Cheers, Hayden.

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
04-01-2005 10:00 AM  13 years agoPost 2
MFIS

rrVeteran

The Netherlands

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

My tp2100's have never swelled. I have had kokams that did swell and the swelling damaged them. Their c rating was too low and i was pulling too many amps. My guess is that you are doing damage to your packs and something is wrong with your setup. Too large of a pinion perhaps? Or maybe your motor is going bad? The other possibilty is that your TP's are not GEN II which would mean they dont really have the C rating to fly a trex.

Just the first things that pop to my mind.

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
04-01-2005 10:36 AM  13 years agoPost 3
nedyah

rrApprentice

South Australia

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

They are defently Gen 2 (yellow stripe lable), unless they are labled incorrectly.
I have 2 of them, and it only seems to be one of them (#2) that is doing it. It is only slightly (~0.5 to 1mm max) swelling and doesn't seem to really effect it, although I do get slight less flight time from it (maybe a minute less). But that may normal, as not all packs are 100% equall.
.

Cheers, Hayden.

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
04-01-2005 11:04 AM  13 years agoPost 4
MFIS

rrVeteran

The Netherlands

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Its not normal. I have 3 packs and none of them have ever done this. I would contact TP for a replacement.

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
04-01-2005 11:06 AM  13 years agoPost 5
smoothound

rrVeteran

Lancing, West Sussex, UK.

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

It maybe time for you to balance them particularly if you charge them to the max and discharge to the max...

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
04-01-2005 11:12 AM  13 years agoPost 6
nedyah

rrApprentice

South Australia

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I did suspect that the pack could be faulty. It looks to be only the top cell that is swelling. But it could be the centre one too and I just can see it.

How hot do yours TP2100's get . Mine seem to get to about 60C or just under. Even on cooler days, it doesn't change much, maybe only a few degrees less. On a really hot day like today, they may even go slightly over 60C (~61-62C).

How often do you guy's ballance them? Will I loose my warranty (if they have any), if I cut the end open to ballance it?
.

Cheers, Hayden.

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
04-01-2005 01:43 PM  13 years agoPost 7
bevoduz

rrVeteran

Normal, IL

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I had one of those packs start swelling after a flight for no reason, i let it sit for a day, then followed the return instructions on tp's website. Got a replacement pack in the mail about a week later. No problems with my 8 other packsor the replacement.

Bevoduz

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
04-01-2005 02:30 PM  13 years agoPost 8
rckrzy1

rrElite Veteran

Hurst Texas

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

How hot do yours TP2100's get . Mine seem to get to about 60C or just under. Even on cooler days, it doesn't change much, maybe only a few degrees less. On a really hot day like today, they may even go slightly over 60C (~61-62C).
Anything over 54.5 is damaging.



Wildcat Fuels

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
04-01-2005 02:49 PM  13 years agoPost 9
nedyah

rrApprentice

South Australia

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Yeh, I've never liked the idea of them getting that hot. but no matter what setup I try, they seem to stay about the same temp.

I've read the danger point was like about 70C for Lipo's. Sound's quite high, I know. But thats what I read. That's why I ask, what temp others are getting, so I could see if mine was any higher than what others are getting and if so, work out why.
.

Cheers, Hayden.

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
04-01-2005 05:00 PM  13 years agoPost 10
WRXRonald

rrKey Veteran

Auburn, OH

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

...
hope you are keeping that puppy in a fireproof safe at night, and have a bag of sand on hand while flying... swelling is bad!.


imagine your checking that batt out and it just explodes in your hands, shooting hot molten bits at your eyes!


getting the picture here?... better safe than sorry here. one night before i new anything of lipos or much of micro helis when i first had an EskyII, i tried to fully discharge my lipos just like one would an nickel-hydride batt.. i kept running the blades until there was almost no power left....

wow was that a bad idea, all along i didn't know it... and these puppies swelled up like you wouldn't believe, they looked like 2 balloons.... ready to pop. i gently handled them wondering why they were doing this, set them near a cold window in my bedroom and went to sleep... all i can say is how LUCKY i am to have not burn down my house and killed myself and my wife both. i don't know how they didn't explode... but suffice to say, i may be one of the luckiest and at the time, most uneducated persons about lipos in the world.

never again do i fly w/out a fire-proof safe on hand at all times, and a bag of sand. there's just too much risk involved

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
04-01-2005 05:04 PM  13 years agoPost 11
rckrzy1

rrElite Veteran

Hurst Texas

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I've read the danger point was like about 70C for Lipo's. Sound's quite high, I know. But thats what I read. That's why I ask, what temp others are getting, so I could see if mine was any higher than what others are getting and if so, work out why.
Well TP states anything over 130F is shortening the life. Mine runs about 110-115F.



Wildcat Fuels

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
04-01-2005 05:12 PM  13 years agoPost 12
nedyah

rrApprentice

South Australia

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

WRXRonald
The swelling is nowhere as bad as your describing, they don't look like there ready to pop or anything. Like I mentioned earlier it is only very minor swelling, maybe about 0.5mm to 1mm max.

They're not in a fireproof safe, but are in a metal container and I have an appropriate fire extinguisher close by.
.

Cheers, Hayden.

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
04-01-2005 05:18 PM  13 years agoPost 13
WRXRonald

rrKey Veteran

Auburn, OH

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

ok...
just sharing a little story there... probably you are ok... at least you know from me.... they can get VERY swollen, and mine did not burst, again, i think i got lucky, any rough handling or a crash with mine and i'm sure they would have burst... but those were also esky cheapos...


my tp's don't swell at all.... so you're probably looking a bad pack or less than ideal pack. i would send it back and check your amp draw...

i have something wrong with my setup right now (have yet to iron it out)... but its drawing WAY too many amps and i'm running TP 2100's to the soft cutoff of 9V in about 4 minutes of hovering.... and despite this rediculous amp draw (which is killing my charge way to fast), still no ballooning... my guess is your temps are causing the ballooning. which would make sense... since you a little over the 'comfort' range for temps, and you're getting just a slight ballooning.

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
04-01-2005 05:49 PM  13 years agoPost 14
nedyah

rrApprentice

South Australia

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Yeah, I would like to check my amp draw. But unfortuneately, I don't have anything suitable to check it with at the moment.

I can tell you that I get about 12-13 minutes out of them. Which works out to about 160-175 milliamps a minute.
.

Cheers, Hayden.

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
04-01-2005 06:07 PM  13 years agoPost 15
smoothound

rrVeteran

Lancing, West Sussex, UK.

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

What you need to remember is you can't keep on fully charging and discharging without balancing, you can't keep light charging and discharging without balancing, although the former will cause unbalance before the latter

Even though the packs come without a balancing cable you need to have someway of balancing every 10 or so charges if you want to get best life out of your cells.

If one cell gets 0.2v lower than the other 2 the cutoff at 9v will have 2 cells at 3.1v and one at 2.8v the more you cycle the worse it gets without balancing especially if you go to the wire. Once you have a cell at below 3v you will start getting shorter flights and a ballooning cell.

Moral of the story, you must balance once in a while

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
04-01-2005 06:12 PM  13 years agoPost 16
WRXRonald

rrKey Veteran

Auburn, OH

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Ok to the moral...
but what are the means to get to the end....


are you suggesting we disect our TP's and attempt to get at each individual cell?

all i can say is thank gosh i got tanics with taps. as for the TP's i have... any suggestions? how do we get to these for balancing?

AND... once i start my balancing, how do i know how much is in each cell, for the current setting? each TP cell is 2100mah, right?

not 2100/3 cells equals 700 Mah each cell, that wouldn't make sense, since these are in series, not parallel, right?

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
04-01-2005 06:16 PM  13 years agoPost 17
nedyah

rrApprentice

South Australia

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

They're both only fairly new packs, so they would only be about due for ballancing about now or might be a little over due. I think they have had about 14 cycles from memory.
.

Cheers, Hayden.

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
04-01-2005 06:39 PM  13 years agoPost 18
smoothound

rrVeteran

Lancing, West Sussex, UK.

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

14 cycles is enough to push the cells out of balance, especially if you are pushing the cells via charge and discharge.

Each cell is 2100mAh and 4.2v.

More and more packs are now coming with taps and balancing circuits now. I have a new TP 4s 2000mAh pack in front of me now which has a balance cable although I've not checked to see if it is compatible with any of the available balancers yet.

To balance my cells I normally fully charge each cell until the charger finishes then compare voltages and the discharge with a light bulb any that are too high down to to the lowest. As a rule they are all close enough off the charger

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
04-01-2005 06:45 PM  13 years agoPost 19
oragami

rrVeteran

Florida

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Go to heli hobby and watch the exploding lithium battery video. It will scare the heck out of ya.

But you will see that it takes alot to make them go. Although, if the pack is swelling, you need to totally discharge it, and discard it. Call TP about your claim. It is not worth burning down you house over, even though i believe that these batteries are a bit more durable than they say. But have heard of instances of crash damaged batteries exploding upon a charge.

If you decide to keep charging these batts, just plan for the worse, because when they go, they go HOT, and fast.

Watch that video. They simply over charge a pack and explode it.

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
WATCH
 1 page 1558 views POST REPLY
Helicopter
e-
Align
Other › TP2100's Swelling.
 Print TOPIC  Make Suggestion 

 5  Topic Subscribe

Wednesday, April 25 - 5:17 pm - Copyright © 2000-2018 RunRyder   EMAILEnable Cookies

Login Here
 New Subscriptions 
 Buddies Online