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HelicopterComputer Flight SimulatorsOther › XTR Autos are Horrible
04-01-2005 02:52 AM  13 years agoPost 1
kauaison

rrApprentice

Alameda, CA

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i broke down and got XTR after a few years of faithful service from G2. I must say it is a nice sim with alot of parameters. But can someone tell me how i remove the invisible lead brick that seems to be attached to the heli during autos?

This thing autos nothing like real life, i mean its pretty horrible...

everything else seems to work fine so far...

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04-01-2005 04:17 AM  13 years agoPost 2
the collective

rrKey Veteran

Bayside, NY, U.S.A

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Two things come to mind... Under the rotor section of physical parameters, you might adjust your low pitch for autorotations, and you might also increase the rotor inertia if you're just running out of RPM too quickly.

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04-01-2005 04:55 AM  13 years agoPost 3
DMShanks

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Salt Lake City, UT

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Yep, adjust Rotor Moment of Inertia, and set your throttle hold pitch curve for about -3 to -4, and +13 for starters, and just drop the stick all the way down just prior to swithcing into hold. Should be in the ballpark.

Dave

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04-01-2005 05:40 AM  13 years agoPost 4
kauaison

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Alameda, CA

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adjusted Rotor Moment of Inertia to .12 for R50 tuning, and its much better thanks...

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04-01-2005 02:49 PM  13 years agoPost 5
rckrzy1

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Hurst Texas

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Not to mention the lack of blade noise.



Wildcat Fuels

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04-03-2005 06:45 AM  13 years agoPost 6
JoeBecker

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Thornton, CO

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I had this problem at first too, but now I have a related issue-- inverted autos. No matter what I do the heli falls like a brick in an inverted auto-- even at full positive inverted it slows down and drops. Changing the moment has no affect either, although it boosts available reserve the regular upright autos. Anyone else experiencing this too? Any suggestions?

The beatings will continue until moral improves

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04-03-2005 07:01 AM  13 years agoPost 7
TMoore

rrMaster

Cookeville, TN

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Don't come down inverted with full positive. Stay just above zero pitch, conserve rotor speed and then flip the heli. This works.

TM

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04-03-2005 09:34 AM  13 years agoPost 8
JoeBecker

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Thornton, CO

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Don't come down inverted with full positive. Stay just above zero pitch, conserve rotor speed and then flip the heli
I know-- That's what I do in real life. What I'm saying is that doesn't work for me in Reflex, and no position even up to full positive (which I tried out of curiousity) will prevent the headspeed from dropping like mad... Inverted, no matter what I do, it acts like if it's right side up with full positive and I'm trying to stop the blades on purpose.... I have the RPM display running and as soon as I hit hold (only when inverted) I can see it plummets regardless of stick positon. Weird! It's not acting like real life at all.

The beatings will continue until moral improves

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04-06-2005 08:54 AM  13 years agoPost 9
Jafa

rrElite Veteran

Sydney, Australia

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This problem often occurs when the actual model pitch values
are not what you expect.

So you have a model setup in XTR with +10 and -10 deg of pitch,
and -6 deg of pitch for auto rotations

So you would assume that a value of 0 in your hold pitch curve
would give you -6 deg of pitch on the blades - right?
Not always...

Now, run XTR in a window,
hit your hold button,
drop the collective to the bottom,
in the bottom status bar you can see the main blade pitch value,
tune your hold curve as required to get decent/realistic pitch values

Now go back to full screen mode and try an auto,
you may find it much more realistic now

(same thing applies to the other flight modes,
0 may not be -10 of pitch - you need to check it out)


Protos | Logo 400 & 500 | Sceadu Evo | Freya Evo | Trex600N | Avant FX

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04-06-2005 03:45 PM  13 years agoPost 10
RCfan

rrKey Veteran

Longwood, FL USA

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Wow Jafa, nice catch! I never realized this; appears Reflex is actually treating the min. pitch for auto as an ATV and adjusts pitch curve during hold, changing your stick mid-point?! This is why so many folks have such a hard time auto'ing some of the stock models, particularly those with min. auto pitch set near zero. You should send Reflex support (support@reflex-sim.de) an email about this; can't think of an easy workaround except enabling pitch->throttle mix for each model. Otherwise you almost have to have a different hold pitch curve on your radio for every model.

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04-06-2005 03:58 PM  13 years agoPost 11
Jafa

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Sydney, Australia

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Thanks, I've spent a lot of time on XTR, glad this tip helped you...


Protos | Logo 400 & 500 | Sceadu Evo | Freya Evo | Trex600N | Avant FX

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04-10-2005 03:31 PM  13 years agoPost 12
heligoole

rrKey Veteran

yorkshire,uk

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glad to find tips on xtr here,mine(i dont know if this is same for all)came with no instructions!!i've managed to work out most probs..i found that the caliber 30 that loads up at first run of program auto's very well..the rappy 50 v2 does not so well...i may go and check out the variants for both these models to compare....so i can make my own instructions!!!!At the retail price this simulator is very good/expensive...but with no instructions...i've been to their website but could only download a file of how to photo your own model....havent come across the software (or part of the main program)that deals with making your own photos for the sim model??yet...

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04-10-2005 05:35 PM  13 years agoPost 13
DMShanks

rrApprentice

Salt Lake City, UT

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heligoole, the instructions are electronic. When in the Sim environment, click on the question mark (?) on the menu bar. Should be there.

Dave

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04-10-2005 05:37 PM  13 years agoPost 14
heligoole

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yorkshire,uk

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cheers dmshanks...ive also downloaded the photo software from xtr's website

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04-10-2005 10:19 PM  13 years agoPost 15
dCypher

rrApprentice

Dallas

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I dunno about you guys, but every heli I've ever flown builds headspeed when given negative pitch in an auto descent...

Why can't I ever re-create this in XTR?

Dropping from 500 feet above with full negative pitch (-7) and I just gasp at the windowed data output for rotor rpm falling like a rock. :/

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04-11-2005 01:21 AM  13 years agoPost 16
Jafa

rrElite Veteran

Sydney, Australia

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But are you sure you do have -7 pitch?
See above post on checking this..

Also depends on the model,
some have incorrect rotor inertia, power
and some of the 50's even have 90 size weight!

But in any case, I have been using my MA tach to watch auto's,
while you can spin up the head speed if you wash too much off,
the headspeed does not increase from your powered head speed.


Protos | Logo 400 & 500 | Sceadu Evo | Freya Evo | Trex600N | Avant FX

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04-12-2005 03:27 AM  13 years agoPost 17
kauaison

rrApprentice

Alameda, CA

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rotor inertia just helps the blades keep spinning a little longer, which helps a little. But i still think its a programming issue with XTR. Even if it had a 90 weight it should still hold a constant headspeed.

With the data being displayed i tried various neg pitch with similar results, the blades continue to slow down...

G4 with XTR graphics and parameters? I wish....

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04-12-2005 03:41 AM  13 years agoPost 18
Jafa

rrElite Veteran

Sydney, Australia

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I've been able to setup the Freya 90, Sceadu 50 and Raptor 50 to all have realistic auto performance

(I can also set them up to have totally unrealistic auto performance, huge hang times)


Protos | Logo 400 & 500 | Sceadu Evo | Freya Evo | Trex600N | Avant FX

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04-12-2005 05:09 AM  13 years agoPost 19
DMShanks

rrApprentice

Salt Lake City, UT

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Jafa, would you consider posting the setup you have for the Rapor 50?
I too cannot get the rotors to spin up, at least not very much, no matter what I try.

Best, Dave

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04-12-2005 05:46 AM  13 years agoPost 20
Jafa

rrElite Veteran

Sydney, Australia

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Reflex XTR Setup for Raptor 50 & Futaba 9C

Please note that it is vital to get your calibration done correctly on ALL channels (includes the gyro, use normal mode and 50%). When you calibrate you need all ATV's set to 100 and both the throttle and pitch curves should be linear 0 to 50 to 100. This is VERY important.

Normal Curves:
Pitch: 30, 40, 50, 72, 86
Throttle: 10, 30, 32.5, 57, 100

Ilde Up Curves:
Pitch: 10, 30, 50, 72, 94
Throttle: 100, 92, 72, 92, 100

Hold pitch curve: 29, 39, 50, 72.5, 100

With this hold curve, I come down at 1/4 stick or just below.
Make sure you have reasonable forward speed,
and remember to go negative before hitting hold...

Gyro: GY Mode, Heading Hold 23% (Assuming you don't change the model's gyro sensitivity setting which is 0.8)

Model Parameters:

RPM Controlling (Governor) NOT Ticked
Transmitter mixing pitch->throttle TICKED

Model Physical Parameters:

General tab:
Model weight 3.2kg
Aileron moment of inertia 0.1
Elevator moment of inertia 0.1
Yaw moment of inertia 0.2

Drive tab:
Engine power 1.32
Rpm at maximum power 17000
Gearbox efficiency 95

Main rotor tab:
Main rotor diameter 1.35
Rotor RPM 1800 (this is used in governor mode)
transmission gear ratio 8.5
rotor blade chord 0.058
pitch maximum 10
pitch minimum -10
pitch minimum at autorotation 0
rotor moment of inertia 0.075
maximum hub moment 8.5
loss on full cyclic input 0.8

Tail rotor tab:
tail rotor diameter 0.28
tail rotor blade cord 0.03
pitch travel to left 30
pitch travel to right -20
pitch offset 1.9
gyro sensitivity 0.8

The real issue is - does this simulate an auto reasonably well - if you can't auto a nitro heli and are looking at the head speed during an auto in XTR then you are focusing on the wrong thing.

I have tached people landing nitro helis, some times the head speed is right down to 1000 rpm just before she touches the ground.


Protos | Logo 400 & 500 | Sceadu Evo | Freya Evo | Trex600N | Avant FX

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HelicopterComputer Flight SimulatorsOther › XTR Autos are Horrible
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