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Zoom › suggestions for sluggish zoom 400
03-29-2005 10:25 PM  13 years agoPost 1
Jambo

rrApprentice

Kent, UK

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I've had a zoom 400 for a while now and allthough very happy with the way it flies, something tells me that I haven't got the right gear in it or I haven't set it up right. The heli will fly fast circuits all day long but I feel that it just hasn't got the grunt on climb outs, I therefore am reluctant to try flips on it. I have seen some of the videos from runyder and I believe my zoom does not have this power.

Could anyone suggest from the following spec what may be wrong :-

4 x Hitec hs56B servos
1 x GY401
rear servo mounting/carbon rod
Sab blades
Castle Creations 25 speed controller set to high gov mode
Li-po 1600 battery (lasts 10-12 mins)

Himax 2025 4200 motor - Head speed 2600
8T pinion gear

Pitch +7 0 -7
throttle curve normal :- 0 25 50 75 100
idle 1 :- 85 85 85 85 85

Weight 550Grams

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03-30-2005 12:10 AM  13 years agoPost 2
BlakeMcBrayer

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Georgetown, Ky

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Try a throttle curve of 100-95-92-95-100 or 100-97-95-97-100, this will help.

Also you should be able to run more pitch, with a Park400 I run anywhere from 8.5 to 9.5 degrees +/- (depends on blades).

Lastly, replace the Hi-Max with the cheaper and MORE powerful Park 400. I think the P400 is about the best thing out there for a 3 cell set-up. I'v tried most all of them, even big money Hackers, but non of them will do what the P400 does. The Hacker's get real close, maybe even as good, but the P400 is less than half the price of a Hacker.

Don't come off the throttle untill you see your GOD!

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03-30-2005 01:03 AM  13 years agoPost 3
skeppley

rrVeteran

Auburn PA

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Blake is right on with that Idle 1 curve of yours. Mine looks like yours Jambo, but i run Governor mode,so the headspeed stays up with pitch changes on it's own. If your not in Gov, you have to have a curve like Blake runs so the motor doesnt bog down when changing blade pitch. Think of it as going up a hill in your car, and never changing the throttle position, by the top of the hill, your barely moving, even though the throttle hasnt changed, same goes for the headspeed in a climb, you gotta increase it, or let the GOV mode on the speed control do it for ya. Think of the Gov mode as Cruise Control.

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03-30-2005 01:27 AM  13 years agoPost 4
BlakeMcBrayer

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Georgetown, Ky

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Someone else had a good point too and PMed me about it,

What brand are your 1600 Lipo's.

There is a huge difference in Lipo's from brand to brand. I have found that Apogee's and Tanic's will put out the most current and voltage under heavy loads. I have tried alot of them most were average, Thunder Powers were way better than avarage but the Apogee 1660 3S2P packs pull harder than anything I've tried so far.

I have some Kokam 1500's for example and if I'm going to flip it with those, I have to be VERY high with LOTS of room to recover from the free fall out of the bottom of the loop/roll/flip.

Don't come off the throttle untill you see your GOD!

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03-30-2005 07:21 AM  13 years agoPost 5
Jambo

rrApprentice

Kent, UK

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Sorry I forgot to mention that I use high Gov mode. As for the battery it is a flightpower :-

http://www.flightpower.co.uk/prodde...p?prod=40311600

I do have a park 400 which I bought because I was impatient for my himax to turn up, when I got home the postman had delivered the himax I have never tried the park 400

Would a 9T pinion be better?

some of the crazy climbouts seen on the videos here at runryder prove that my zoom is a lead weight. I would estimate my zoom would climb 20 feet in 4-5 seconds

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03-30-2005 02:28 PM  13 years agoPost 6
wings

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Stafford, UK

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Jambo, no dont go with a 9T, it will just drain your battery faster.

I have an almost identical setup - himax 2025 4200, CC25, flightpower 1600HD, 8T, SAB's etc. and I have no problems. As you are running at 2600rpm there should be plenty of climb with +7 -7. You sure your pitch angles are accurate?, i ran at the standard +7 -7 for some time without probs but now run at +8.5 -8.5 approx for a vastly improved climb out.

Does your motor bog much under load? i would think not as i have the same set up and mine doesn't bog much at all running at 2300rpm.

PS at a lower head speed 10-12min flights become 12-15min flights with this set up, without a reduction in performance.

Hope this helped.

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03-30-2005 05:06 PM  13 years agoPost 7
Jambo

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Kent, UK

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Wings : My pitch is correct +7 0 -7, checked and checked again. It just doesn't seem to have the grunt,the motor will bog very slighlty on climb outs, but I assumed that this was normal. Now I have seen some of the videos here I know it's slow. How much does you zoom weigh, perhaps mine is just on the heavy side @ 550Grams

Whats settings have you set on the CC25?

I'm deseparate to get it going balls out now that I have seen the little things go !

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04-01-2005 02:52 PM  13 years agoPost 8
Jambo

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Kent, UK

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in addition what make/type of battery are you using?

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04-01-2005 06:21 PM  13 years agoPost 9
wings

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Stafford, UK

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Jambo, sorry i didn't reply earlier.

My heli weighs about the same as yours, i'm using fligh power 1600HD 3s1p li-po's which i beleive are the same as yours. I cant remember the exact settings on my esc but i know i don't use GOV mode, i use a tach to measure head speed and test it under different load conditions, ie neutral pitch, full pos and full neg. I simply then adjust my throttle curve to maintain the headspeed so it doesn't bog (2300rpm). Its a bit tricky to set up right to maintain the stick position you want in hover but i prefer this method.

Do you have any binding in the drive system? i wouldn't have thought you do but worth asking.

How have you got your TX set up? - by which i mean have you set up your pitch ATV's to +7 -7, then using a pitch curve peaking at 100% - this is how i have mine set up, with a little more pitch though.

One other thought, do you have all your linkages set correctly on the collective, ie at zero pitch the servo horn and the pivot arm it connects to should be horizontal. If this isn't correct it would be like using expo on the collective.

Hope some of this helps, failing that i would suggest borrowing another motor / Battery to test, in case you have faulty electrics somehow.

Let me know how you get on, i'm glad to post any more info you might want on my setup if it helps.

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04-01-2005 10:12 PM  13 years agoPost 10
Jambo

rrApprentice

Kent, UK

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Wings thanks for the reply, its just handy to find someone with an almost identical setup.

All my linkages are fine. I had some success this evening by trying a park 400 motor, and changing the gov mode from high to low. In addition I have changed my top end pitch from 7 to + 8 and this is much much better, allthough after a few mins the motor seems to bog down a little which suggests the battery can't supply enough power. Perhaps I should try another battery, allthough before I do that I will try it without the gov mode and set it up using good old fashioned throttle/pitch curves!

Its very quick on climb outs now, except that the climb outs can't be sustained after a few mins.

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04-01-2005 10:20 PM  13 years agoPost 11
Jambo

rrApprentice

Kent, UK

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sskogen thanks for the suggestions and I don't think you are trying to be funny. I have 2 x Raptor 50's and and a Raptor 90SE to play with normally. Having the zoom is just plain fun, I can take it out every night in the backyard which gives me by daily fix )) I therefore get to fly almost everyday.

Anyway back to my crappy zoom Both yourself and Wings suggeested I try not to use the gov mode, so this is going to be right up there on my todo list.

Its interesting to here that the different versions of software in the CC25 effect the performance, I have v1.11 so I will try to find v1.10.

Allthough I am using the gov mode, I found it fairly easy to loose the eternal wag, with a good steady tail in non and HH mode.

I am coming to the conclusion that it is something to do with the gov mode or my battery just isn't up to scratch.

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04-02-2005 07:09 AM  13 years agoPost 12
wings

rrApprentice

Stafford, UK

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Jambo, glad to help. Good to here you got it sorted.

sskogen, sorry your zoom was killed, glad you found nitro - but - i think you have underestimated the intelligence of many here, the benefit of the micro eheli i thought was obvious - keep it in the back of the car and blast it at every oppertunity. lunch breaks -BBQ's - weddings - whatever. I'm not starting an arguement, you did ask "Why are you flying the Zoom?" Personally i love my zoom, i have other models, nitro & electric but the zoom is the one that gets the most air time through convenience.

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04-02-2005 06:44 PM  13 years agoPost 13
wings

rrApprentice

Stafford, UK

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thanks for the constructive comments, why are you using the zoom forum again?

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04-04-2005 08:40 AM  13 years agoPost 14
Jambo

rrApprentice

Kent, UK

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Can I feel a bit of bitterness towards micro heli's

Although the zoom has a few weak points here is my pennies worth:-

Electric heli’s are now mass produced from hummingbirds, replicas through to zoom's/trex's, being fairly cheap makes them available to the many and therefore is good for our hobby. Saying that beginners may have problems setting them up. There is no difference in setting them up to a nitro heli, which takes a long while to master. We have had many beginners come to our field with new nitros in such a bad state of build/setup that I'm not surprised they have problems. The same issues will be applied to micro heli’s. Lack of experience for the beginner MAY be playing a part in some of the bad words people are saying about them and therefore the same questions being asked. For example, the gears stripping, how many first time zoom users have actually used tube drives/gears??? I have got hours of flight time on my zoom without even stripping a tooth.

My little zoom will fly incredibly smooth and predictable; it will stay in a stable hover for eternity. I consider my zoom stock, with the exception of a boom mounted rudder servo/carbon control rod. As for slop there is none with the exception of a little in the tail, which really doesn't make any difference to the way it will fly when it is spun up.

I have ordered a new lipo and will try this in my zoom to get the sustained climb rate I require. If that fails I will load V1.10 of the software in my cc25 and try non gov mode.

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