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HelicopterAerial Photography and Video › Forward flight while carrying under heli mounts
12-11-2004 08:26 AM  13 years agoPost 1
duczz

rrApprentice

Kerikeri, New Zealand

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Hi all, just wondered what most of you guys fly like when out on photographic missions, does most of your flying involve hovering and raising up into position vertically from where you take off, or do you use forward flight to get up and then hover for pic taking, how does a heli handle when in fast forward flight with a under slung mount swinging below it? So far while using my new mount I have simply lifted off and risen vertically to get some pics before decending vertically again to land, I havn't done any forward flight to speak off.... how about others??? cheers..

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12-11-2004 01:25 PM  13 years agoPost 2
groundeffect

rrKey Veteran

Canada

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use the wind.
I use the wind as mush as possible to get altitude.

I usually track the wind on site, then on take off I fly into the wind, get the disk up and get the wind underneath. ---- that's if there is wind


I try to follow 'traffic' pattern approachs and the standard hovering - to take-off techniques.

I rarely do fast forward flight with the gear on.


hope that helps,
Cheers,
Dean

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12-11-2004 01:28 PM  13 years agoPost 3
DANNO

rrKey Veteran

St. Petersburg, Florida

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most if the time its pretty much straight up, hover, and straight down, although when im hovering at higher altitudes i usually cant keep the heli in one spot so much, so it will be moving forward, backwards, and sideways at times....but i usuaully dont fly fast with the camera mount attached, mainly becuase there isnt enough room....although now i am careful to decend usually going side to side in more of a zig zag to avoid settling with power....or the votex donut....that got me once already.

dan

www.skypiximaging.com

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12-11-2004 02:15 PM  13 years agoPost 4
mcatech

rrVeteran

Mount Gambier SA Australia

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Much the same here
The ring vortex state is a real hazard it nearly put me into the deck once already
I have limited experience at this at the moment but I normally rise up
into a hover and take photo's however for high altitude shots I tend to go out wide and fly over head and slow down to a hover then listen to the blade noise as I have learnt to judge vertical motion by blade turbulence (far from an exact science but it helps me) long enough to get a shot off normally but I always fly a circuit back to a hover as this avoids the ring vortex state
recently I decended with a tail wind at slow speed and nearly wasn't able to recover its quite dramatic with the semi blades and extra weight
I hope to try a set of nhp blades in the future to see how they compare
as for speed I have let it rip a couple of times while recording video
it looks great but needs a lot of area and watch the high G turns as the mount is only secured by bungee strap
I have wrapped piece's of velcro around the undercarriage loosely as backup incase the bungee lets go

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12-11-2004 02:43 PM  13 years agoPost 5
bell-230

rrKey Veteran

sonoma, ca (currently milano italy)

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i do forward flight fairly often but not to get up more just to fly way out snap the shot and fly back. and i haul ass i just dont take the photo when i'am moving , i go into a hover for the photo.

ian brooke
k2shots.com

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12-11-2004 03:57 PM  13 years agoPost 6
waterskier

rrApprentice

Crosby, Texas

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You do what ever is required....Most of the time, the place that I select to takeoff and land from is not below the spot where I want to take my photos. When I am in forward flight, I try to fly similar to full size, use ground effect, climb with forward airspeed, and be soft on the controls....No fast forward flight.....No reason to push it....
The descent is much the same way....If I have room, try to do a standard approach similar to and auto approach, that way if I have and engine issue on the way down, I have a chance to save the chopper (or at least reduce the damage)

Greg

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12-11-2004 03:59 PM  13 years agoPost 7
daggit

rrElite Veteran

Claremont, MN

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I fly with the camera in mind.

First flight of the day I bring it into a hover at about twenty feet let her warm up for a couple minutes and wiggle the sticks to check response while wifey clicks off a couple test shots.

Then I turn the heli so the camera is aimed at the subject (if it isn't already) and slowly gain altitude pausing at various altitudes to allow the cameraperson to frame shots. Then I'll circle the target keeping the camera pointed at it, pausing at different angles.

Then I bring it down SLOWLY still aiming at the target. Often, the best shot is obtained during this part of the flight

My goal is to give my camera operator as much shoot time as possible during each flight and gain as many different angles as possible.

I always sell the client on the idea that they'll get different angles and altitudes in thier package.

9 times out of 10 I get more shots then I need in one flight flying this way.

For still photos FF flight time is wasted camera time.

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12-11-2004 04:08 PM  13 years agoPost 8
daggit

rrElite Veteran

Claremont, MN

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I should add that when bringing the heli down it's best to come at an angle and keep out of your bladewash.

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12-11-2004 05:07 PM  13 years agoPost 9
ericslife

rrApprentice

vancouver b.c. Canada

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I so far have been using foward flight as well to climb.Havent had much wind yet.Also have only experimented with video and F/F. Its not to bad but the gyro would be nice.
Eric D

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12-12-2004 05:59 AM  13 years agoPost 10
pilatus turbo

rrApprentice

Brandon, MS

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Hi,

Here is I do: Hover the heli without the mount for about 30 sec., to trim if needed, then kill engine. Put the mount and hover for about 30 sec. again to trim with mount. Then, I climb very slowwww from about 4 ft. to 100 ft. in the time my camera op. is taking pictures. Also, when I reach the desire altitute I hover to the right and left of object while my op is taking pictures. Then come down the same way I went up. In other words, once I leave the 4 ft. hovering altitude my op. is taking picture constantly until I come back to the low hovering altitude.
In this way, by the time I have been in the air for 6-8 min I have about 40 pictures of the subject.

Hope it helps.
Hector

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12-12-2004 10:26 AM  13 years agoPost 11
Dakine

rrElite Veteran

OC, Commifornia

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To me, the mount actually makes it more stable, forward flight and hovering.

However, it doesn't hover inverted too well

Actually, I think I'll try it, inverted hover with a mount.....just for kicks. I'll try it on my Maxi. I'll wait until Pyros gets back from China so he can take the pics and we'll post them

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12-12-2004 06:07 PM  13 years agoPost 12
tabbytabb

rrElite Veteran

seattle

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Tony, if you want any tips on inverted hovering with the mount PM mike shetler. He is the man for acrobatics with the mount on

Tabb

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12-15-2004 11:04 AM  13 years agoPost 13
Clicky finger

rrNovice

Christchurch, New Zealand

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I am hardly ever in translational lift. In fact it is so many years since I did any of that sort of flying, when I was experimenting with video footage recently and was into forward flight, I felt somewhat uncomfortable. Have decided to buy a Real Flight G3 when they come out with the heli module in the new year to get some practice!

Pete

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12-15-2004 05:58 PM  13 years agoPost 14
waterskier

rrApprentice

Crosby, Texas

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If you are in a hover in any kind of wind you are tech. in transitional lift. Transitional lift is defined as a state of flight when forward airflow horzontal to the disk ads in the production of lift.
Next time you are in a hover and faseing into the wind, turn down wind and if you have to add power/colective, then you were in transitional lift....

Greg

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12-15-2004 09:04 PM  13 years agoPost 15
fitenfyr

rrProfessor

Port Orchard, Washington

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Suggestion...
My advice here is to fly the aircraft as you would if it were real.
I am hardly ever in translational lift. In fact it is so many years since I did any of that sort of flying, when I was experimenting with video footage recently and was into forward flight, I felt somewhat uncomfortable.
Pete hit the nail on the head here for me.
What if you loose orientation?
How are you going to recover and fly out of it if you don't fly your AP in forward flight?

Each trip out I plan a flight "path" that is a complete circuit or area of flight.
My camera operator is pretty demading in terms of composition. He has an image in his mind and it is my job to get the aircraft in a position to allow that image to be taken.
Yes my mount moves, but only a small amount.
Forward flight is an absolute must for me so is backwards, sideways, nose in, side in...etc....
The helicopter DOES fly differently with that extra weight and drag, but not dramatically. I can still "yank and bank" pretty hard with the mount on my ION.
Video to follow this summer....

You should be comfortable flying your aircraft with the mount as you would without.
This is the safest way to operate weather or not you shoot video.

This is the kind of thing we all need to be thinking about for the near future.
The big man is coming and when he does there are going to be certain standards that need to be met and I guarantee one of them is 100% control of the aircraft in all flight regeims it is capable of.

Except maybe inverted....Then Mike will just have the "master" license for it.

Jason Stiffey
Fly Fast....Live Slow...

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12-15-2004 09:27 PM  13 years agoPost 16
Clicky finger

rrNovice

Christchurch, New Zealand

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Greg

You are absolutely correct. Translational lift is to do with the airflow over the blades as opposed to the helicopter moving over the ground. I stand corrected. The time of the night I wrote that reply the brain was a bit 'foggy.' Blah blah....

Yep, what I SHOULD have said was it is so long since I did much forward flight. Or should that be flying around relative to the ground....

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