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HelicopterMain Discussion › What's Best eCCPM, mCCPM or normal?
12-09-2004 08:23 PM  13 years agoPost 1
Jasper7

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Birmingham , UK

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Hi

New into this and looking to get my first heli. Qusetion is the Sceadu Evo 50 comes into variants HPM or SWM. eCCPM or mCCPM, or is that mCCPM ore CCPM?

Whats the differnce with each?
What are the plus's and minus's?
Which is best?

Or do I get a normal Heli such as the Raptor using seperate servo for each function?

Help Please

Jasp

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12-09-2004 08:31 PM  13 years agoPost 2
shuttlepilot

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Mullins, South Carolina

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Jasper7

You need to check out this thread. This has been discussed here a great deal.

http://www.runryder.com/helicopter/t138665p1/?highlight=ccpm

Gas is Great
Camper Fuel is Better!!
QWW Helis

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12-09-2004 09:13 PM  13 years agoPost 3
mrNoodles

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Borlänge, Sweden

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I´d choose a EVO HPM between those two. Easier to set up.

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12-09-2004 10:18 PM  13 years agoPost 4
KC

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WA

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I'd get whatever is cheaper to crash

hands down, mccpm (same as 'normal') are cheaper to beat up than eccpm because you can replace servos one at a time without getting interactions.

you also wont need 3 of the same kind of servo.

I'd get the normal sceadu or a raptor 50, put a 9252 on collective and 9202s on cyclic....that would last about 800-1000 flights (or about 3-4 years?) before those servos would die a natural death.

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12-09-2004 10:21 PM  13 years agoPost 5
mrNoodles

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Borlänge, Sweden

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9252 will be great on cyclic also

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12-09-2004 10:22 PM  13 years agoPost 6
heligoole

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yorkshire,uk

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I'd get whatever is cheaper to crash
this is all very well but jasper may never crash !!BE ONE WITH THE AIR@@@@@@(perhaps he will though... )

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12-09-2004 10:58 PM  13 years agoPost 7
roys55

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USA

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I have a Caliber 30 with the eccpm. By my way of thinking, it is the only way to go. Spreads the load out over all the servos. Less linkage,fewer parts to replace, better control. If your buying new stuff, make sure you get a radio that supports it, 7C, 9C's are two that do.

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12-09-2004 11:46 PM  13 years agoPost 8
Dr.Ben

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Richmond, VA, USA

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This topic has beeen beaten to death elsewhere by my self included, but I'll comment briefly. I have and do fly both eCCPm and mCCPM.

mCCPM is by far the lowest maintenance system LONG TERM when you consider the initial set up of the model and how long that model will hold that set up. By maintenance I'm also mean electronic set up on the bench and maintaining that and NOT just how many pushods you have to build. The ongoing Achilles heel of eCCPM is changes in the servos which occur over time and NOT on a consistent basis. You can take the finest model and the finest servos made, set them up for perfect swash tracking, and that set up will NOT be there after a case or few of fuel. Been there and done that over a few hundred gallons of fuel. The problem is even worse when you factor in the processor delays present in all but the fastest radios on the market. Just ask the guys who have gone from a 9C to a 9Z WC2. The problem with replacing out servos one at a time that was mentioned in the other post is indeed true. It generally takes a tremendous amount of ATV magic to begin to get a new servo to track along side ones with time on them.

When we one day have servos which do not change with time and wear, eCCPM will be the cat's ass of control systems. Until that time, any time saved up front with a few fewer rods is more than lost long term by what it takes to keep the model flying the same from day to day over the long haul.


Ben Minor

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12-09-2004 11:51 PM  13 years agoPost 9
Paul Susbauer

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Hillsboro, OR

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Well put Ben...thats all I'm going to say..

Ineptitude - If you can't learn to do something well, learn to enjoy doing it poorly.

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12-10-2004 11:27 AM  13 years agoPost 10
roys55

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USA

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Are you trying to say that when all things are equal, servos don't wear out when used in a mccpm set-up?

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12-10-2004 12:03 PM  13 years agoPost 11
Evil_Homer

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Cubbington, Warwickshire, United Kingdom

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No - I dont think Dr.ben is trying to say that but mCCPM there is no coupling or interaction (i think you would call it that) between the collective/cyclic movements, although generally it is recommended to have the same servos on cyclics on mCCPM it is not neccecary just would make the response rate different, eCCPM the heli/acontrols would be all over the place if one servo starts to run a little slower

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12-10-2004 12:04 PM  13 years agoPost 12
GM1

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Tallahassee, Florida US

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Nope
What he is saying is that in an mCCPM system, the servo may wear but it will not interact with any other servos in the system as each servo controls an independent individual function. In an eCCPM system 3 (or more) servos control each cyclic/collective function and if ANYTHING changes with any of the servos (centering, speed, strength, end point, etc.) then all cyclic/collective axes are affected. On an F3C system, this is a pain as you have to keep adjusting to compensate for the changes. On my sport models, I don't really care one way or the other as I have to fly through stuff anyway and it doesn't matter if there is a minor interaction.
Gordie

On a dog sled team, if you're not the lead dog, the view never changes.

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12-10-2004 12:39 PM  13 years agoPost 13
Malorie

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Paw squared, MI

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One thing that everyone seems to overlook.

eCCPM is all about the manufacturers. Cheaper to make the heli (less parts count), sells more hi-end radios, sells more he-end servos, gives the pilot headaches to deal with as mentioned above. Until linear servos are around (and even then I have my doubts), there will always be interaction problems.

If it weren't a money thing, eCCPM would be a scale thing almost exclusively.

Life's a journey, NOT a destination.

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12-10-2004 05:47 PM  13 years agoPost 14
Jasper7

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Birmingham , UK

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Well thanks to you all.

Reading it all, the best way to go is mCCPM, les setup problems and sounds like better tolerances between servo's.

Sceadu Evo 50 with mCCPM coming my way soon (Hopefully)

Thanks
Jasper

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12-10-2004 05:59 PM  13 years agoPost 15
mrNoodles

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Borlänge, Sweden

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Im sure you´ll love it! Its a nice heli!

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12-10-2004 07:13 PM  13 years agoPost 16
Ramster

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NJ

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Hey Malorie,

How about a eCCPM system with blade angle/position feedback.
Do you think such a system could solve the interaction issues?

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12-10-2004 07:18 PM  13 years agoPost 17
z11355

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New England

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instead of that overly complex scheme, how
about improving the microcontroller inside the
servo so that it 'remembers' it's factory calibration
and does whatever it needs to do to maintain
that calibration?

and of course a programmer (ala Hitec but more
advanced) to manipulate the calibration.

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12-10-2004 07:30 PM  13 years agoPost 18
Ramster

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NJ

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z11355,

I did not say this was simple. But keep in mind that even with perfectly matched servos in an optimized control setup geometry interaction will occur.

With feedback would you really care if the servos were matched?
(although matched servos are an advantage)

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12-10-2004 07:43 PM  13 years agoPost 19
z11355

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New England

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I just dont like it because it's adding a bunch
of complexity, weight and cost to compensate
for other problems while not addressing the
core of the problem.

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12-10-2004 07:55 PM  13 years agoPost 20
Ramster

rrApprentice

NJ

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Complexity???????? They are now making RC transmitters with MP3 players .

What is the core of the problem?


Ron

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HelicopterMain Discussion › What's Best eCCPM, mCCPM or normal?
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