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12-07-2004 04:57 PM  13 years agoPost 1
SLiebl

rrApprentice

Lancaster, PA - USA

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Heli: Shogun w/CC25, Himax 4200, HS-55's, HS-50 on the tail, Futaba 401 Gyro, Like 90 blades, 8T pinion.

Hover is nice and stable, no problems. I'm still working on the gain, and am dealing with a nasty left yaw tendency during full pitch climbout. I'll be upgrading to a carbon pushrod for the tail.
The real problem I'm having is a strange fore/aft tail bob in forward flight. The nose oscillates up and down. Not side to side.
Anyone else have any problems like this?
I did have a "mishap" with the Shogun on it's first flight... don't ask.
I replaced the main shaft and spindle as it was all that appeared damaged.

Any chance I have a slight bend in the boom causing this problem?
Any advice would be appreciated.

-Steve

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12-07-2004 05:03 PM  13 years agoPost 2
copperclad

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NY

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hi
i would try changing the pitch curve > headspeed a little and see if it has an effect on it

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12-07-2004 07:09 PM  13 years agoPost 3
G dog

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DeFuniak Springs FL.

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Shogun Tail Problem

SLiebl, I have the same problem going on with my Shogun as well. I have the same set up as you except I have a 240 gyro and a 8T pinion. I didn't have this problem until I crashed and broke my fiberglass blades and got the Like90's. I also replaced the main shaft (steel) and the spindle (stainless steel) At first I thought my pitch and throttle curves were causing the problem, but no matter what I do I can make it stop bobbing front and back. So the only thing that might be causing the problem would have to be the blades. I took the blades off and inspected the carefully only to find out that they both have a slight curve to them. Looking from the blade grip down the trailing edge it curves upward. I have another set of fiberglass blades like I had before on order. Hopefully this will cure the problem, as I mentioned above I didn't have this problem before. As far as your gyro problem, you might not have it set up correctly. Turn the heading hold function off, go into hover and check your trim on the tail. After you get it trimmed out to hold in a hover, disconnect battery, and switch the heading hold back on, also make sure you dont have any revolution mixing on.
If any one else has an idea what the problem is with the tail bobbing or the gyro set up, I'm all ears.

Thanks.............G Dog

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12-07-2004 09:42 PM  13 years agoPost 4
SLiebl

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Lancaster, PA - USA

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G Dog,
Thanks for the reply... also I have the 8T pinion... must have slipped on the keyboard when I typed the original message.
I've very confident my 401 is properly setup. I got the trim really close in non-heading hold first (just like I've done with my Raptors) before switching to HH.
No Revo mixing. I'm thinking I need to keep increasing the gain until it wags then back it off.
I just don't like the piddly little wire pushrod. Also, the tiny little servo arm can't be helping things. It's so flimsy. I'll probably try a stronger arm once I get the CF pushrod on the tail. I'll try putting another set of Like90 blades on it as well. These required about 1.5" of trim tape out near the tip to balance. CG of the blades is very good.
What kind of pitch gauge are you guys using with the Like 90 blades? The hokie little cardboard gauge that comes with the Shogun doesn't work with the Like 90's since the chord is smaller.
I've been reinstalling the original blades (at least the root where they weren't creamed) to set the pitch. Then I swap on the Like 90's.

-Steve

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12-07-2004 10:00 PM  13 years agoPost 5
Max Headspeed

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Sunny (!) Livingston, Scotland

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Strange-o-rama

Mine was silky smooth too until I thwacked it into concrete. I replaced all the broken bits and guess what? Nodding dog syndrome! I just checked my SABs and they're BENT!!! Dang!

Max Headspeed.

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12-07-2004 11:28 PM  13 years agoPost 6
BlakeMcBrayer

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Georgetown, Ky

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As for the nod, I dunno? But for the yaw during climbout, try alot of headspeed. When you put a bunch of pitch to it, you will lose some headspeed and thus your losing t/r speed too. The more headspeed you start with the more you will have left after you lose some.

Don't come off the throttle untill you see your GOD!

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12-07-2004 11:37 PM  13 years agoPost 7
G dog

rrNovice

DeFuniak Springs FL.

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Shogun Tail Problem

Max Headspeed,

So from what I understand is that you had a crash, replaced the broken parts and you are having the same problem as SLiebl and I ?

Did you also have to replace the blades ? How were/are your blades bent ? Are they bent the same as I described for my Like90's ?

This Nodding Dog (no punn) syndrome has me perplexed.

Thanks................G Dog

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12-07-2004 11:55 PM  13 years agoPost 8
Max Headspeed

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Sunny (!) Livingston, Scotland

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Yep. The nod only started after the crash and I am still flying my original pre-crash SAB blades. At first they appeared to be ok after the crash but upon proper inspection, they are defo bent. First instinct was paddle alignment but that's not the case with mine (I spent ~1hr checking/adjusting, now with sore neck). Since then, I've tried bending them back but they are stiff & too springy to adjust. This makes me think they were like that all along so I'm back to square 1

John

Max Headspeed.

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12-08-2004 09:49 AM  13 years agoPost 9
geiges

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lancaster PA

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Man I hope it's not the like 90
blades I jest got two set's today

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12-08-2004 10:17 AM  13 years agoPost 10
<(tRiNiTy)>

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Antwerp - Belgium

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In my opinion it's cos the low headspeed. I can simulate the wobbeling by decreaseing the headspeed.

I'm running the same setup, but with a CSM SL560, but on a 9T pinion.

Cheers!

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12-08-2004 11:30 AM  13 years agoPost 11
SLiebl

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Lancaster, PA - USA

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I don't think I can get any more headspeed out of it. I had it set at 2300 but it would have trouble with even moderate climbouts. Might be my Kokams or the CC25 speed control. It would go into the low voltage mode and I'd have to quickly land. Then lift off again. Decreasing the # in my high gov mode throttle curve from 95 to 85 seemed to fix that problem for the most part. I haven't re-tached it since.

-Steve

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12-08-2004 11:32 AM  13 years agoPost 12
SLiebl

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Lancaster, PA - USA

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I do understand the head speed could be the problem and I'm leaning that way. That would explain why it's super stable in hover since the blades are all spun up, but in forward flight the disc gets loaded in turns, causing a drop in head speed. This could be my 1500 Kokams.
Mike, I'm anxious for you to get your Shogun in the air since you have a bunch of different packs to try out!

-Steve

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12-08-2004 04:45 PM  13 years agoPost 13
G dog

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DeFuniak Springs FL.

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Shogun Tail Problem

SLiebl,

Ok, got my new blades installed last night. Blades perfectly balanced. Same problem. Played with pitch and throttle curves. No help. Reprogammed CC25 from auto calibrate to fixed throttle. Head speed now lower in hover. Still wobbled a bit but not as bad. I don't have a tach to check actual head speed so I really don't what the RPM's are. I just know it's much lower now. Before the RPM'S seemed really high, sounded like a blender on puree mode. Was getting late so I had to call it a night. Tonight I will get back to it with a fresh charged battery. I will let you know how it goes. It's seems the more money I put in this thing, the worse it gets. I'm almost at the point of just buying a new one and starting over. (throwing it against the wall has also crossed my mind)

L8R...................G Dog

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12-08-2004 10:38 PM  13 years agoPost 14
doorman

rrProfessor

Sherwood, Arkansas

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Nod

I have been following this post to see what may have caused your problem... I was wondering it you checked the damper O rings in that head when you changed your spindle??? And also is there any play/rocking motion between the main grips and Main Rotor Yoke??
Just a thought...
On the nitro's this is where the problem that you are describing could come from...
Keep us posted!!! (no pun, oh well OK)

AMA 2918-Team JR, Spin Blades,,Castle Creations, Unique Aircraft

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12-09-2004 01:21 AM  13 years agoPost 15
BlakeMcBrayer

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Georgetown, Ky

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Fixed throttle is better, but you might have to adjust your curve to get your headspeed back.

I have 3 packs of Kokam 1500's myself and they have gotten where they don't cut it anymore. I guess their voltage is starting to drop because they give me lower headspeeds and some tail kicking on climbouts. Climbouts also are by far worse. My Apogees 1660's rock, they give steady headspeeds thus holding the tail on climbouts.

Some of your yaw could also be the HS-50. My personal feelings about the 50 are not good. I'm having real good results with the Expert SL-110. It's alot faster that the 50. In combination with the Kokams not being able to keep up, your tail might be kicking faster than the HS-50 can respond.

Don't come off the throttle untill you see your GOD!

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12-09-2004 07:48 AM  13 years agoPost 16
geiges

rrNovice

lancaster PA

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steve
My Li-pol's are your's to try any time.

Going from the 1320 TP to a 1500 Electrifly
in my foamy the TP got more power for shore.


Hope to have the rest of the gear by
friday and a 2100 TP to try .
I HOPE IT'S HEAR BY FRIDAY!
PS wait till you see the new landing
gear.
mike

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12-12-2004 03:48 PM  13 years agoPost 17
Max Headspeed

rrVeteran

Sunny (!) Livingston, Scotland

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G dog

Hi

I tried everything today to try to eliminate the bob which affected mine in the hover as well as fff. I meticulously balanced everything and when spooled up in my hand, there were NO vibes at all yet the bob persisted. I tried different tensions on the feathering shaft & blade bolts - loosening the bolts helped a little but didn't CURE the problem. I decided to try the stock blades which up untill now have been unflown. Guess what? Problem COMPLETELY gone The heli is as smooth as get out now and I am happy. The headspeed is also higher than it was with the SABs (less draggy?) and being lighter, the cyclics are more lively.

Stock blades rock

Cheers

John

Max Headspeed.

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12-12-2004 10:07 PM  13 years agoPost 18
SLiebl

rrApprentice

Lancaster, PA - USA

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Max H,
What sort of flying are you doing with the Shogun and the stock blades? I was sort of scared of the stock foamies for anything but hover and light circuits. You say the stock blades rock, but have you tried flipping or looping with them? Just curious since I'm looking for some descent performance and didn't think the foamies would deliver.
Is it possible that since you put the stock foamies on the headspeed is significantly higher, and that's what cured the "bob"?
If that's the case, a higher discharge rated pack may also solve the issue, allowing you to use your SAB's. I hear they are the hot ticket for 3D and hard flying.

-Steve

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12-14-2004 07:37 PM  13 years agoPost 19
Max Headspeed

rrVeteran

Sunny (!) Livingston, Scotland

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Well the stock blades didn't turn out to be that great for anything but hovering & gentle FF. I tried to stiffen them up using CF rod but ended up ruining one of the blades. I decided to try the SABs again but this time tightened the blade bolts up TIGHT. When I say tight, I mean I can still move the blades in the grips but it takes considerable force to do so. This solved the problem for me. Try it and let me know how it goes for you.

BTW, I am using Polyquest 1500mAh lipos which are rated at 10c continuous with 15c bursts. I have only 3-4 cycles through them so far but they seem pretty good so far. Is it true they get better after a few more cycles? I'm using an Apache Smart charger 2500 set @ 1200mA charge current Motor is a Hacker B20-15L on a 9t pinion, CC25, SBEC.

Cheers

Max Headspeed.

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12-14-2004 08:17 PM  13 years agoPost 20
Spread out!

rrApprentice

cali

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Is the tracking perfect?

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