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HelicopterMain Discussion › Heli Crash TOWING A BOAT!! DUMB A$$
12-08-2004 09:22 PM  13 years agoPost 21
w.pasman

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Netherlands

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Of course he should have dropped the pitch *before* getting too far in trouble. He must have been pulling harder and harder gradually as he further got out of control.

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12-08-2004 10:00 PM  13 years agoPost 22
Brett Horton

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All is good with the above thoughts but to sum it it the pilot was still "A DUMB A$$" I have been a few scale pilot ( fixed wing ) for over 12 years and in my years I would never had made a bad judgement call like this pilot. It was just plain stupid. The pilots approch when starting the tow showed he had no idea in the methods in which he was tying to acomplish.
Incompetence is no excuss when life and limbs are in line, especially when the stated task was not life threatning.

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12-08-2004 10:20 PM  13 years agoPost 23
mikeflyz

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Westlake Village, CA

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I don't think it was dynamic rollover. I think he would be able to recover the situation if he would have DROPPED the pitch. The tension on the line would drop, returning him cyclic control to put the heli straight.
You just described the perfect recovery technique for correcting a dynamic rollover, assuming you haven't pushed the helicopter past the critical rollover angle. The picture is the more common way to roll over, by a stuck skid in the ground.
...and in my years I would never had made a bad judgement call like this pilot
Hmmm...

Mike
MA Fury Extreme, JetCopter SX

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12-09-2004 01:05 AM  13 years agoPost 24
AirWolfRC

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For that one and a few more "oops" maneuvers,
you can look at my oops list recently updated.

Wolfgang

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12-09-2004 02:36 AM  13 years agoPost 25
Helimex

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Oklahoma

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I totally agree with Copterviews. This so called helicopter pilot should have his licensed revoked, that is, if the dumbass didnt drown. There's nothing in the operating manual of the Jet Ranger that says anything about towing other vehicles. Arrogance and incompetence is what did this clown in.

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12-09-2004 02:51 AM  13 years agoPost 26
Helimex

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Oklahoma

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....also, it was definitely not dynamic rollover. You need a pivot point to cause that, which he did not have. Dynamic rollover can only occur while on the ground.

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12-09-2004 02:55 AM  13 years agoPost 27
mikeflyz

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Westlake Village, CA

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The pivot point was where the rope and the skid touched.

Mike
MA Fury Extreme, JetCopter SX

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12-09-2004 03:00 AM  13 years agoPost 28
Helimex

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Oklahoma

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ummm.....I still don't think that is a real pivot point in this circumstance, but I may be wrong. Time to get out my old worn out FM-203 (Army).

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12-09-2004 03:13 AM  13 years agoPost 29
Heliavi8or

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Temecula, CA

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I am no expert but tat looks a little stupid. Hopefully no one was hurt.

Practice! It might be costly but it's the only way we get better!

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12-09-2004 04:58 AM  13 years agoPost 30
wurthless

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Redding Ca.

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Wolf,,,thanks for the opps page good video

QUICK! ,,,can someone turn the gravity off for just a second,,,,

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12-09-2004 06:53 PM  13 years agoPost 31
Helimex

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Oklahoma

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Dynamic rollover......not.

Army FM 1-203 Rotory Wing Fundamentals of Flight:

A helicopter is susceptible to a lateral rolling tendency called dynamic rollover. This rollover can occur on level ground but is more critical during slope manuevers. Each helicopter has a critical rollover angle beyond which recovery is impossible.


In the JetRanger case, had he had more altitude, recovery may have been possible by a reduction of the collective, neutralizing cyclic and flying out of the situation. All helicopters routinely fly at angles nearing almost 90 degrees without any problems so dynamic rollover is not applicable at altitude. In the true sense of the definition, the JetRanger did not experience this phenomena.


Marco. Ex Army UH60Blackhawk and UH1 aviator.

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12-09-2004 07:07 PM  13 years agoPost 32
AirWolfRC

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Dynamic Rollover yes,

The heli experienced exactly that. When he tried to climb with the skid restrained, the heli "rolled over" about the restrained skid beyong it's critical angle and . . . splash.

Wolfgang

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12-09-2004 07:27 PM  13 years agoPost 33
Helimex

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Oklahoma

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AirWolf, no disrespect but I don't think you understand the true definition of dynamic rollover. With altitude, your version of DR is recoverable. True dynamic rollover happens only on the ground and is unrecoverable.

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12-09-2004 08:18 PM  13 years agoPost 34
w.pasman

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Netherlands

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It seems to me that in dynamic rollover the thrust of the tail rotor plays a crucial part - it's blowing the heli over the 'pivot point'. That was definitely not the case here. He was pulling the heli over the pivot point with the *main* rotor, not the tail rotor.

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12-09-2004 08:24 PM  13 years agoPost 35
Helimex

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Oklahoma

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The tail rotor has nothing to do with DR. If that were the case, one could assume that opposite tail rotor control would help recovery, which it does not. Once you exceed critical rollover angle ON THE GROUND, the aircraft is going over on its side no matter what.

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12-09-2004 10:05 PM  13 years agoPost 36
hingus2000

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i know nothing about full size helis so i was just wondering,

if a heli rolls, and the blades strike the ground, are they designed to fold or snap? what are the chances of survival of a pilot sealed in the cockpit?

Tom

T-Rex SA, Anodized Head, Gy240, 3s TP 2100mah, Align 35A ESC, 430L Motor

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12-09-2004 10:56 PM  13 years agoPost 37
mikeflyz

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Westlake Village, CA

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All helicopters routinely fly at angles nearing almost 90 degrees...
Could you please clarify that statement?

Mike
MA Fury Extreme, JetCopter SX

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12-09-2004 10:59 PM  13 years agoPost 38
mikeflyz

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Westlake Village, CA

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Also no disrespect intended, but that is like saying that mast bumping is only true mast bumping when entered by the most popular means ie a low-G pushover, when there are many other ways to do that.

Mike
MA Fury Extreme, JetCopter SX

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12-09-2004 11:07 PM  13 years agoPost 39
Helimex

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Oklahoma

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Most main rotor blades in full size heli's are of a laminated honeycomb interior with some sort of spar in it for strength. In the Blackhawk the spar is a hollow tube filled with nitrogen with an indicator at the blade root. If the integrity of the spar is compromised, ie cracks, the nitrogen bleeds out and is indicated on the dial. When blades contact the ground, they basically disintegrate, shredding crap everywhere. They are not designed to hit anything but air. If you're on the ground and experience rollover, the heli will beat itself to death but your survival chances are fairly good, unless you're in the back seat of a JetRanger. The transmission on this aircraft sits right above the rear seat and when the heli blades hit the ground it tends to rip the transmission right out of the mounts above your head. It is possible that you may incur some bodily damage for being in such close proximity to all the action. Same applies to the MD500 and other similar heli's.

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12-09-2004 11:22 PM  13 years agoPost 40
Helimex

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Oklahoma

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90 degree rolls

Mikeflyz, it is very easy to roll helis nearing 90 degrees and still have full control authority. Just ask our boys in Iraq, they're doing it daily dodging bullets and RPG's. Fact of the matter is that there is no technical name for what the joker in the video did, except maybe stupidity. Dynamic rollover in the technical sense of the word, did not occur. Take your heli and tie a rope to one of the skids. Now hover it about 20 feet in the air. Yank on the rope a little. The heli might roll to one side quite a bit. Dynamic rollover? No. Steep roll angle? Yes. Now take your heli and glue one skid to the ground. Try to take off. The heli will pivot on the skid until it reaches a certain point that is non recoverable, no matter what you attempt. Viola, Dynamic Rollover.

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HelicopterMain Discussion › Heli Crash TOWING A BOAT!! DUMB A$$
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