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12-07-2004 02:41 AM  13 years agoPost 1
Aaron29

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USA

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12-07-2004 02:50 AM  13 years agoPost 2
Saint728

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Honolulu, Hawaii

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Synthetic oil all the way, there is no substitute. Never had a problem with my motors and they are perfect inside as well as the outside. One motor was perfect even after I haven't used it in 4 months. Started right up and flew strong. It was a YS91. I see no reason to use caster oil in an engine? The only people I see using caster oil or a mix of caster oil is plankers.

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Cheers, Patrick

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12-07-2004 04:45 AM  13 years agoPost 3
Gearhead

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Vt

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Byrons makes a Castor Synthetic mix, I believe it's called 'add a lube" it's great stuff, I only use it for braking-in my motors, for my OS 50 I add 3oz to my first gallon, 2oz to my 2nd and 3rd gallon and 1oz to my 4th gallon,,, for a ring-less motor you may not want to use so much because this stuff really cools a motor good, and a ring-less motor needs to run hotter than a ringed motor,,,

Castor is so very good at cooling 2 strokes, when you are carrying your running heli to the flight line, and the used Castor oil is spit out the exhaust and drops on you skin/leg it feels cold,,,

you can use it for what you want (last flight of the day), or if your motor is going to set a while, but the problem with Castor is if to-much is used over to-long of a time it can build-up and gum-up the inside of your motor (not good), and it can/will stain the inside of your motor in a short amount of time, and after it exits the exhaust it can stain terrible if it gets on something hot like your motor or pipe/muffler,,,,, but it's good for braking-in a motor.

Jim

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12-07-2004 05:50 AM  13 years agoPost 4
dkshema

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Cedar Rapids, IA

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Prior to synthetic lubricants, castor oil was THE lubricant of choice for model engine fuel. It works very well.

Many fuels still have a castor/synthetic mix available.

If you've ever read Clarence Lee's "Engine Clinic" column in RC Modeler magazine, he often explains the differences between castor and synthetic.

A large percentage of the cooling that takes place in the engine comes trhough the unburnt fuel and oil that goes out the exhaust, and with it, heat.

As I recall, Mr. Lee's explanation is that in a lean run, castor oil will burn, and with it, some excess heat goes out the stack, but it still has some lube quality to it. The synthetics don't burn, they break down and no longer act as lubricants.

The down side of castor is that after a while, and especially after some lean runs, the piston and cylinder liner will tend to accumulate "varnish" - an indication that the castor has gotten too hot and burned. The piston and sleeve will take on a brown cast, as if they were painted with varnish. Unless you do something about the varnish, it becomes a bit sticky with heat as you run the engine. The heat in turn leads to more varnish formation, and eventually, the engine just won't run well. It leads to a cycle that builds upon itself until you have to fix it. The solution is simple, you dismantle the engine and clean it. Lube the engine well, reassemble, and off you go, good as new.

Dave

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12-07-2004 09:31 AM  13 years agoPost 5
Aaron29

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USA

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12-07-2004 09:35 AM  13 years agoPost 6
Al Magaloff

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. Run some castor based fuel, and decide for yourself. Doing a last run castor as Doug describes is a good thing for you tropical climate guys. But to run it all the time.....try some, report back. I also challenge you to wear out a motor running sythetic.

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12-07-2004 09:38 AM  13 years agoPost 7
Aaron29

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USA

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12-07-2004 10:40 AM  13 years agoPost 8
Al Magaloff

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Your right, really nasty stuff. People who add extra oil for break-in are just plain misinformed. Putting more oil in makes the mixture leaner, requiring more oil. Pretty simple equation really.

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12-07-2004 12:28 PM  13 years agoPost 9
airdodger

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Johnston USA

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YS recommends synthetic only,in the 140's if you run castor you will have a stuck ring in a short time. I ran 2 cycle 100cc motors at head temperatures as high as 400 degrees ,at 13,000 plus rpm for an hour straight with synthetic oil , and as high as 575 long enough that the piston would concave ,and the oil was not failing ,the piston would still not stick,so I doubt we need better lubrication . When the metal is failing first that is good enough for me.There is also a viscosity issue on some motors such as 140dz ,it will not run on a high viscosity oil period. If castor sits in the fuel lines for a period of time it congeals ,it can do that in the carb then you have to take apart and clean ,the list goes on and on. A higher viscosity oil such as castor causes more internal drag in the motor. On a car motor putting out about 500 hp running 50 weight oil you could pick up as much as 30 hp just going to a 30 weight.That said run what ever makes you happy. Chris

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12-07-2004 12:29 PM  13 years agoPost 10
unklpunk

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alberta canada

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alot of guys with 2-stroke dirt bikes and snowmobiles, find some whizzy new oil that can mix at 60:1 or 80:1 gas/oil ratio,.. then they check the plug after a run and it shows rich,.. well lets just go down 3 sizes on the main,.. and low and behold,. seized engine, but the plugs showed rich,.. hope your pocket book is. McGulloch the chainsaw people did an article about single ring 2-stroke gas/oil ratio's, they found max power at like 12.5:1 the oil helps seal the ring for better compression.
Up

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12-07-2004 01:08 PM  13 years agoPost 11
G.Man

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Bristol

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Castor is still the best lubricant for our model engines, however, the mess it makes is so offensive most of us dont bother...

I am using castor/synthetic byron for my 1/8th scale race car, but the beater just gets synthetic only... and less nitro...

The more revs an engine does the better oil you need...

Mcucllochs chainsaw engines are hardly high performance precision motors so not surprised they need lots of oil to seal the ring, however, on the race 250CR's we used to run in Karts, we ran 40:1 synthetic and that gave better performance than 25:1 castor as the combustion is cleaner..

You cannot compare these motors to our model engines tho, as the oil is a lubricant and a cooler in our engines...

Plug chops are only a reliable method of checking the plug on a new plug thats been chopped at max revs, if the engine has idled then the plug test will not be accurate...

As a general rule, the more revs or smaller capacity of the engine the more oil it will need... but load and heat effects this as well...

As a side note, if an engine overheats then the engine goes rich as the crankcase temp will make the air inducted less dense... however if it overheats due to lean mixture it will generally sieze before the mixture changes enough to cool it down...

Heat is important in an engine as when the engine is up to full temp with the correct oil, the piston ring is nigh on useless, all the sealing is done by the piston/oil/barrel interface... The ring is just there to add an additional seal for the low rev, cooler moments...

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12-07-2004 02:46 PM  13 years agoPost 12
airdodger

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Johnston USA

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Your comment about the plug chop is only relevant to spark plugs.I don;t know where you came up with that mixture theory. If rings are only good for low rev cooler moments why do we change them in the dragsters every run they only go 10,000 for four seconds, ring seal is one of the most important compontents in the motor.I too ran karts and Hartman did my motors the best there was ,and I saw them take hours to hand lap the rings in my motors,no break in go run at full rpm right away, must not be important though ,honing plates ,cross hatch bringing the parts to temp before honing,must be a big hoax on all the race motors.We run the same oil in the pylon motors that turn 33,000rpm as far as that statement about the more rpm;s the need for better oil. Also the 40 to one ran better because the motor was getting more fuel per charge and less internal friction with less oil, not because the cumbustion was cleaner. As far as the statement about the oil not being used as a cooling medium in the kart motors , you need to rethink that.The oil is what transferes the heat to the cylinder walls,metal on metal does not work well. Also if the charge gets less dense the motor will rev less ,you can do that yourself go adjust the needle valve to lean the motor it slows but does not seize right away. Flame suit on. Chris

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12-07-2004 03:22 PM  13 years agoPost 13
unklpunk

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alberta canada

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40:1 is a lot better than 80:1, it was just a comment about gas/oil ratio's. i realize chainsaw motors are about as hi-tek as a ball peen hamer, just an interesting article.

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12-07-2004 03:45 PM  13 years agoPost 14
Doug

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Port Saint Luice Florida....

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Mineral oil and all synthetics are non "polar" (they do not "wet" or "stick"on metal ) Castor is highly "polar" and as a result it is unsurpassed as a corrosion preventer. The negative affects of running it full time out weigh the good qualities but used as a final run/after run oil just plain works.

First member of Member of Bearings Anonymous

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12-07-2004 05:34 PM  13 years agoPost 15
Al Magaloff

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12,199 Posts- Enough Time Wasted. See Ya!

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airdodger, you are using four strokes as a parallel. Not a good idea in this case. If your ring argument were sound, how then can you explain an ABC type motor, and the fact that they produce more power for a given displacement?

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12-07-2004 07:35 PM  13 years agoPost 16
airdodger

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Johnston USA

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My ring arguement is sound it is accepted by all engine builders ,what do you think the cross hatch in the cylinder is for ,besides seating the ring.The100 cc Yamaha motors are not four strokes,the kart motors of which I spoke . ABC is a different animal they have no ring and that is not what we were talking about,but they also transfer the heat through the oil to the walls . I hope you don't think the piston is touching the cylinder walls. One of the reasons they put out more power is because of the way you can port them with no ring to take into consideration another is because of the rpm ,the tapered cylinder ,the tolerances are tighter,lower rotating mass,you can't rev that high with rings because of flutter .The piston is giong up and down at the rate of 550 times a second at 33,000! Hp is torque X rpm. The oil acts like ball bearing wedges .Likewise if your statement is true how come I have never seen a large displacement ABC motor.This is out of ( The Internal Combustion Engine in Theory and Practice) page 317 partial film friction,"However in normal engine operation there appears to be very little metallic contact except between the piston rings and cylinder walls." I think your statement about adding oil to fuel is also misinformed ,are you trying to say if you add more oil ,the motor will run faster and lean out? If you add more oil to the fuel it will not rev as high as before, because there is less methanol and nitro to burn. . Chris

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12-08-2004 01:21 AM  13 years agoPost 17
Al Magaloff

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12,199 Posts- Enough Time Wasted. See Ya!

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airdodger, I won't debate the finer points, but just so you know, I've done the ring "lap" as you say, thousands of times, not watched someone do it. I've also honed a few cylinders in our Sunnen CK10.

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12-08-2004 01:37 AM  13 years agoPost 18
Doug

rrElite Veteran

Port Saint Luice Florida....

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The comment was relating to the "stocks: used the very highest quality oils you mentioned are "polar" due to additives which raise the price and your "typical" off the shelf model fuel does without

First member of Member of Bearings Anonymous

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12-08-2004 02:22 AM  13 years agoPost 19
DS 8717

rrProfessor

Here wishing i was somewhere else

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If you use fuel that has 20% oil content then is no need to add more oil to breakin the motor,just richening the needle setting will supply more oil. If the needle valve is peaked for max power then adding more oil to the fuel will make it go lean,but if you have the needles set for a rich setting then it wont overlean . C MAN

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12-08-2004 02:49 AM  13 years agoPost 20
airdodger

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Johnston USA

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Al I was pretty sure your background was same some sort of machinist just from what you have written .To answer that slight you stated, just because I did not elaborate I have assembled many race motors for drag racing and oval track and at one time did it for a living. Also raced one of the quickest A Stock Automatics in the country as well ,which I built myself, honed with a CK10 and honing plates ,using total seal gapless rings,that had less then 2% leak down,which was pretty good in the eighties,a 426 Hemi Cuda. I also had a D Modified Production Camaro that would run a tenth of a second off the national record in 1969.. I did not say I had not done it just made that statement to show how important it was to one of the best two stroke builders in the country. Chris

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